FIRE for Dummies - Episode 72
Today’s episode is really special because my dear friend Jackie Cummings Koski is here to chat. Jackie has been a huge supporter of mine and today she shares her journey in personal finance, including some big wins like becoming a Certified Financial Planner and her insights from her new book, "FIRE for Dummies." We’ll dive into how she’s made smart money moves, even when life threw challenges her way, and she’ll give us some tips on surrounding yourself with the right people to succeed financially. Join us to find out how Jackie continues to inspire and educate in the world of finance!
About our guest:
Jackie Cummings Koski, hailing from Aiken, South Carolina, grew up in a financially tight family as the second youngest of six children. Despite the financial challenges and a culture where discussing money was taboo, Jackie pursued higher education to improve her prospects and nurture her passion for writing. She earned a Bachelor of Arts in communications from Augusta State University, supporting herself through college by working full-time. After college, Jackie married and had a daughter, Amber. The end of her eleven-year marriage turned her into a single mother, intensifying her focus on personal finance. Jackie excelled in managing her finances, providing a middle-class lifestyle for herself and her daughter—a stark contrast to her own upbringing.
Her growing interest in finance led her to join and later preside over the Cincinnati Model Investment Club and serve on the BetterInvesting Regional Board of Directors. Jackie's commitment to financial literacy motivated her to educate others, especially since many, like her, were not taught about money in any formal way. Her book, "Money Letters 2 My Daughter," encapsulates this mission, offering straightforward financial advice through personal letters that discuss crucial financial concepts and practices.
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TRANSCRIPT:
Naseema: [00:00:00] What's up, my financially intentional people. So you are in for a treat because we are joined by my good friend, Jackie Cummings Koski, and she is no stranger to the podcast. In fact, she is on the podcast. When is Brandon nurses on fire? But she's doing some incredible things still in the. Firespace recently got her CFP accreditation license, and it's just out here killing it.
But what we're really going to focus on is her new book that's coming out fire for dummies, which is going to be incredible and is part of that crazy for dummies brand that you all know and love. Anyway, what's up Jackie?
Jackie Cummings Koski: No, Seema, I am happy to be here with you, girl. And yeah, I remember our last conversation and we've been friends ever since then. And we talk about a lot of stuff. I feel like our lives have almost been parallel. You about 10 or 20 [00:01:00] years behind me in terms of age, but we have the same spirit.
So I'm just happy to, sit down with you and have this conversation and we'll talk about a lot of stuff. So thank you for having me.
Naseema: Of course, and I do want to acknowledge the fact that Jackie has been rocking with me forever. She is 1 of my biggest cheerleaders. I wouldn't be where I'm at if it wasn't for Jackie. She's always recommending me for great things. And we're always bouncing ideas off of each other. So get you some friends like Jackie.
And 1 of the biggest things that I tell people when they talk about what's the 1st step? In Really getting my finances together is really about the people that you surround yourself with. And so I can truly say I'm blessed to be surrounded by you, Jackie, because you are an inspiration.
And you guys will find out why as we talk more, but Jackie has done some amazing things personally for her daughter and in the personal finance space. But Writing this book is just a small step in or a small accomplishment [00:02:00] in the many things that she has done. But Jackie, why don't you like, give people your background, how did you get started in this money space?
Because you're a corporate girly,
Jackie Cummings Koski: Yeah, yeah, I'd say that a lot. I'm a corporate girl. I live on LinkedIn. My favorite social media is LinkedIn because I'm a corporate girl. That's where the corporate girls live. But you to have a friend, you got to be a friend. So you've been that girl for me too.
Let me just say that.
Jackie Cummings Koski: So yeah, I've been in this money space for a minute, I grew up in poverty. So that definitely was not written into my destiny when I was young. I was raised by a single dad with six kids in Aiken, South Carolina. I do hail from South Carolina. The lady Gamecock just took it home.
Okay. So I'm very proud of my South Carolina Gamecocks. I just have to say that, but. So I just remember, growing up in poverty, I did not want to be poor when I got older. Now, my dad, he worked his butt off. I don't even know how he did it, but he is today my greatest hero and always will be. [00:03:00] And most of the things that I learned from him, I learned in the early years because he actually passed away about three months before I graduated from high school.
So everything that I carry with me, it. is things that stuck with me when I was young, so I ended up going to college, right after thinking that that was a way to. Get a better job, make more money, have good benefits and stuff like that. That's what I was told. So I ended up, getting married right after college.
Had my daughter we ended up moving to Ohio. And as soon as I got to Ohio, found out I was pregnant. So had my daughter. Yeah. So that, changed a lot. And I was married for about 12 years and we ended up getting a divorce. So all of a sudden, when I thought was a shared journey ended up being, a solo project, with me and my daughter and I had to shift and things changed a lot.
And that was pretty much my wake up call at the time of my divorce, because I discovered [00:04:00] that we had a huge disparity in our retirement accounts. Now we were making similar incomes with a similar match and all that. And I had $20,000 in my retirement account in my 401k. And my husband, he had $120,000.
So that was $100,000 disparity. And I talk about that all the time, just because it just still baffles me that I didn't know that. But Once I discovered that, that was like, Ooh, I got to do something different. It felt horrible, not just the divorce and all the like stress and anxiety and things that go with a divorce.
So it took a couple of years, honestly, to get my head right, to. Feel like I had the energy and the motivation and the desire to want to do something different. And so that probably was the start of my journey and my huge wake up call. And I know for a lot of people, it takes something like that to
shake them up.
So that's what kind of started it. I joined an investment club, which turned out to be great as supported by a nonprofit organization called better investing, which I'm still very much involved in. [00:05:00] I actually sit on the board of directors for them. And then I started backtracking, figuring out some other pieces of my financial life that I probably should have tried to figure out 1st things like.
Learning how to, save what is a savings rate, how to do my net worth I started maxing out a 401k maxing out my Roth maxing out my HSA when I discovered I could invest in that and that got it all started. And as soon as I, learned what fire was. And, I'm a skeptic by nature, so I'm digging into it.
I'm hearing like Mr. Money mustache and mad scientist. I'm like, and I had to do my own digging to get my questions answered for me and my situation, because I was very different than, the tech guys that were, two high income earners and, places where, you know, they earned a lot of money, no kids and things like that.
But I adjusted and it was okay. And the fire community honestly was the first. Time I had heard this financial stuff broken down [00:06:00] so simply. So 25 times your expenses is what you need to retire. Okay. That's easy. I can do
math.
The 4 percent rule. Okay. Once I get that big neck nest egg, multiply it by 4 percent and that's what I take off annual.
Okay. That makes sense. And I just filled in the gaps in between. So that's what attracted me to the fire community to begin with, because things were made to be very, very simple.
Naseema: It's digestible. And then, I have the privilege of knowing your story. So I don't want to do it a disservice. But I want to ask some questions to bring people up to speed. Number one, during your marriage, you said, you thought you were on a shared journey.
So how was it that you were only investing that little into your 401k while your husband was investing so much more. It sounds like you thought you was on the same page, but there was a miscommunication somehow.
Jackie Cummings Koski: To be honest, it wasn't that there was miscommunication. There was no communication about our retirement, about, we never looked at each other's statement. I never looked at my own statement. I wouldn't have known how [00:07:00] to make sense of it.
And it wasn't even that he was investing much more than me, but I sense did some sleuthing.
And figured out what were the differences, the main, it was a multiple things. Okay. One of them was, this was around, in the early two thousands where the bank stocks were doing really good. So he worked for a very large bank. the bank stock was one of the holdings inside of his 401k that was outperforming any of the funds.
Then he was invested a little more aggressively than I was. And then on top of that, even though we started out around the same amount, we know that wage gap, right? The
gender wage gap. So he's starting to make more than me. Which means that he is his percentage, let's say if we were both doing 10%, his 10 percent was more than my 10 percent if his salary
Naseema: Mm-Hmm.
Jackie Cummings Koski: So over time, it just compounded. And the gap just grew, grew, grew. So it wasn't any one thing. It was a combination of things. And then he was finally in a role [00:08:00] where he got stock options as well. Not a whole lot, but that was another extra thing. So all those things combined that's what made the difference.
It wasn't any one thing, but yeah, it was basically no communication. Didn't really discuss it. Didn't sit down and look at it. Didn't know I was supposed to.
Naseema: So in your divorce settlement, what happened with those retirement accounts.
Jackie Cummings Koski: So with the retirement account we were married 12 years, and we had a daughter So essentially what the judge did was put all the retirement money in one pot and then split it down the middle so if it was I think from the time that we Started the divorce of time we ended I mean it was nearly two years So I just know that the split I ended up with sixty thousand dollars
Naseema: Okay. Okay. right. That's just to keep catch people up to speed, but, uh, that's good. But one thing that you failed to mention is that In this journey, when you were figuring out all of this stuff, you did something phenomenal and began to be known [00:09:00] as the HSA
queen, because you became an HSA millionaire in that process.
Yeah. Yeah.
Jackie Cummings Koski: so here's the thing a lot of the stuff that I learned I learned outta necessity because I wasn't getting the answers that I needed. one seemed to really know, so I went digging on my own. So I would say that curiosity is a very powerful thing. So with an HSA, when my cousin company started offering them, now, I, I had become more comfortable with the stock market through this investment club, and so I wasn't afraid of the stock market anymore.
And one of the things that attracted me to HSAs is that you could invest in that account. Now, on top of that, looking at the high deductible health plan, because that's the part that scares some people, and it scared me, too, to be honest. But both me and my daughter, we were very low consumers of healthcare.
We would go for our annual visits, and that's about it. Even the low deductible, the 500 deductible, we weren't even [00:10:00] meeting that. So I'm like, I don't want to have to pay all this money in premiums. I'm barely using it. So I'm like, I'm getting this high deductible plan at the, when HSAs were first offered companies, including mine was. Contributing a lot to it. I think
Naseema: Mm
Jackie Cummings Koski: put in initially almost half of what the maximum allowable was. That was nice as well that they were trying to incentivize people for, being on a high deductible health plan. And you didn't even have to contribute anything to your HSA. So it wasn't even a match It the company would just contribute it and so as they were doing that I think when I first started it might have been like around Maybe four thousand for the family maximum and the families just work you and one other person So I was maxing out every year and the maximum was going up So it's four thousand five thousand six thousand So it kept going up and I max it out every year
Naseema: Mm-Hmm.
Jackie Cummings Koski: as soon as I max it out I think the provider required you to keep $2,000 in cash.
So I set it up to, as soon as it met $2,000, it
got put into, I'm pretty sure it was a total [00:11:00] stock market index fund, probably Vanguard. And I just consistently did that. So I had it on autopilot and the health plan was still working for us. And I ended up, by the time I left. the company and I rolled it over.
I ended up rolling over to Fidelity. I ended up, my HSA had grown to around like 160 or 170 thousand dollars, which is crazy. And I had been contributing for about 12 years at that point. And I still have that HSA but I'm no longer on that type of plan because I'm on the Affordable Care Act and my plan is pretty cheap.
On a traditional plan, but so i'm not even contributing anything more. It's just growing and now is like up to about two hundred thousand dollars So I learned all the ins and outs because hr couldn't help me the benefits people couldn't help me. Nobody had answers for me So I had to go digging myself.
So I was that early adapter I got the answers that I needed, digging on my own and it turns out it's a pretty good account. I Didn't quite know, what I was doing [00:12:00] early on but as I was As time was going on, I felt more and more comfortable with it and realized like all the tax advantages, the fact that
you can invest and all these things. Yeah. Yeah.
Naseema: So have you found that now that you're retired you've had to tap into your hsa at all or it's just sitting there and growing
Jackie Cummings Koski: I decided I had a few receipts over the years. Like I said, we were low consumers of healthcare, so I didn't have a whole lot of receipts. I'm like, you know what? I don't need to be even thinking about these anymore. So I think I ended up taking out, It was 2023. 'cause I just, I literally just sent my taxes 10 o'clock last night.
Today is April 16th. I, I've been so busy, I just didn't, so I did last year, I pretty much cashed out every receipt I had and it was like around $3,000. So over the course of 12 years, I had $3,000 worth of receipts. But other than that, no. I'm not proactively tapping into it for anything that I need now, because honestly, the plan that I'm on.
I pay 5 for prescriptions. I [00:13:00] pay maybe 10 when I go see my doctor. So I still luckily don't have a whole lot of medical expenses. I guess I came to a decision of how I'm going to offload my HSA. Now we're still really young, but we know we will get older and at 65 you take Medicare.
So what I will end up doing, if I still haven't touched it, I'll continue to let it grow. I will simply pay for my Medicare premiums, you can do that with my HSA, and year after, year after year, that will cover my Medicare premiums, and that's how I plan on drawing down that HSA.
Naseema: Wow, I love that plan and I don't think a lot of people have thought that far
Jackie Cummings Koski: look, I, I teach other CFPs and financial professionals about HSA. So that's when I had to dig into some of these pieces that don't really apply to me now. But the whole Medicare part, a lot of financial planning clients are older people. So I had to dig into that a lot more and it made me think more about it.
Naseema: Yes, and [00:14:00] then the another thing that you alluded to, but didn't really touch on is the fact that through all of this through you being able to grow your net worth to the point where you can retire, which we haven't really got into that you did not really make more than a hundred thousand dollars.
It's like a lot of people can't, I say I'm not relatable because, you
know, as a
Jackie Cummings Koski: ain't California. Yeah.
Naseema: But like Jackie has been able to reach fire without making six figures her whole career. Mm-Hmm.
Jackie Cummings Koski: That's so true. I'm sure everybody listening probably know what fire stands for financial dependence, retire early. I took the retire early stuff very seriously because some people be like I don't really the retire early. I'm like I do, I got it. I needed to step away from my job.
I needed the ability to be free. And to do some other things that I wanted to do, or at least to separate. So I needed the separation. My job had [00:15:00] nothing to do with personal finance or the stuff that I do now. So yeah, there's a lot of moving pieces. Okay. So you have the big income and all of that.
But then you live in a high cost of living area. So you really got to look at someone's full picture. Now the average household income in it, cause I do research around this stuff too. The average household income in America the last time I checked was like $60,000. Now that is the average over.
All of the U S okay. So California, we know $60,000, it's not going to be that much, but if you live in Ohio or maybe even Georgia or Iowa, $60,000 will go a long way. For me, I live in Ohio and I used to call it a lower cost of living area. It's really more like a mid because our property taxes is up there.
because I have, still family and friends in South Carolina and their taxes are about half of what mine are. And that's something you pay again and again. But my annual salary [00:16:00] I went back and I looked at my social security statement and I took the last 10 years and then I averaged that out.
And it was $80,000 now in any single year, I did not make more than a hundred thousand dollars. And at the time, how it is being a single mom. So I was a single mom, a big part of this time. So I wasn't trying to climb the corporate ladder. I was in sales.
I could have done field sales as opposed to going to the office every day and probably almost double my salary. I wasn't wanting to do that. I wanted safety. And security for my daughter. I wanted to be able to, pay the bills to save and to be able to spend time with my daughter.
She was very active in sports. She was a cheerleader. She was gymnastics. She was all this stuff. So that was more important to me. Than, making $150,000 or $200,000. what I decided to do is just to be more efficient with the money that I did have. So I was okay. Like I never was complaining, Oh, I really want to make over six figures.
Or I [00:17:00] really want to climb the corporate ladder. That was just not important to me.
Naseema: I just wanted to highlight that because the people who are always going to be like I can't do this. I only make this amount of money. And if I'm not making 6 figures wealth isn't attainable for me. But as you can see, Jackie is a prime example, but at what age did you retire Jackie?
We have to tell
Jackie Cummings Koski: it was 49, but I got to, I got to my fire number. My the fire number is just 25 times your expected expenses in retirement. I was right around $40,000. Okay. So $40,000 times 25. Is a million dollars. So that wasn't my number. I hit that number when I was like 46, 47, but I was still a little scared. My daughter, she was grown and she was out.
So that was one of the things on my checklist. I just had never been an entrepreneur. I had just been so comfortable with relying on a steady paycheck that was direct deposited in my account every other week. And to give up that security, it was like giving [00:18:00] away the golden ticket.
Naseema: Yes.
Jackie Cummings Koski: I had to get my head around it. And, I was so interested in financial literacy, financial education. I was already doing workshops, doing talks and training. And I just loved it. Like it lit me up and I never dreamed that I would be able to do that on my own terms. And not have to rely on the job, but the job always paid the bills, but two years later, but it took a couple of years for me to get comfortable with that and say, okay, my numbers work out, even if I don't make a penny, I'm able to pull off my $40,000 or so.
And then, my investments will still continue to grow. So I'm like having this conversation with myself, and finally, two years later, I was ready to pull the trigger. Gave my boss plenty of notes. I gave him a soft note. A soft note just means that I wasn't ready to put it in writing because anything can happen, but I just
wanted to give him a heads up.
But if things change, I still could have backed out or whatever. And then I would say probably about 60 days ahead, I went ahead and I put it in writing. And that happened to be [00:19:00] December 2019, right before COVID.
Naseema: right before COVID 19. Yes.
Jackie Cummings Koski: I was trying to look for some way to get laid off, cause I would have gone to him and I would have said Hey, you don't have to lay off at least one person. I'd be happy to be the one you lay off. Cause then I would get
severance. I would get an employment and all that. Yeah. Negotiate things a little bit and there was adding people.
So I was not, nothing was working for me. And then three months later, the pandemic hit and half the people got laid off.
Naseema: Wow, they're talking. You can't time it. And nobody saw that coming. Nobody. Cause I remember we were even at the economy conference, like the week before the world shut down. And that's when you presented and gave your numbers and talked about you retiring and all of that stuff. And then literally the next week is when everything was like, you can't go
Jackie Cummings Koski: Yeah. We were literally running out the damn building because we were like, Oh, [00:20:00] I don't think it's supposed to touch each other. We were doing fist bumps and not hugging. It was whispers at that time. And some people thought that it was going to get canceled where everything else after that got canceled, but economy
pretty much was the last public thing most of us did
Naseema: Yes. So before we dive into this book, I really want people to understand the concept of retiring early and what that actually means So you said and we know you do some things now But you are retired you retired at 49 and you were able to from your investments live off of the money that you pull down every year using the 4% safe withdrawal rate.
But you can conceptualize that, but in practice, how does that work for you?
Jackie Cummings Koski: Okay, that's a really good question because I think the 4 percent rule or guide or rule of thumb. Is a great reference point because we need something to anchor to I gave [00:21:00] myself all kind of buffers. Remember when I said, I hit my FI number at 46, 47,
right? And I worked a couple more years, so I had a cushion there and then I didn't even include social security.
I was way too pessimistic. Now, I know that it will be there in some form. Now, that's my cushion for my later years because that money that's the safest money you could get, is adjusted for inflation guaranteed. Every single month for the rest of your life
and the government can print money.
Naseema: let me just real quick throw, in a plug from the catching up to FI podcast, which you are now a co host of had an amazing episode on social security and like all the, the questions that you would have around social security, that was the most informative and the most easily digestive Conversation that heard around social security.
So just plug that in in the show notes
Jackie Cummings Koski: so that's a good point because Naseema, I was getting off so much conflicting information that I just threw it out. And here was the thing, and I didn't discover at the time, I was so [00:22:00] naive that most of the comments, there were political undertones.
Naseema: Yep.
Jackie Cummings Koski: And so it depended on a lot of times how you felt politically or somebody, people were making a political statement and I'm like, I'm not trying to do that.
I'm trying to get some real numbers, which again, I'm back to let me dig and do my own research. Research. And I, now I look at a worst case scenario with Social Security. the actuaries, the people that know what they're doing, the big brains. Okay. They say if nothing's changed by 2034, you probably will only be able to get about 75 percent of your stated benefit.
Okay, fine. That's what I did. Or that's the number I'm looking at. And I would do this too. Okay. Let's assume I take it as early as possible, which is the lowest amount at age 62. So I do that. So even that was about 1, 500 a month for the rest of my life, adjusted for inflation and the government can print their own money
so yeah, it'll be there in the later $40,000 is how much a month?
[00:23:00] God, girl, you asking me to do math?
Naseema: I know, three, three, $40,000 thousand is $36,000. So a little over $3,000 a month. So that means it will cover about half, even in the worst case scenario. Now I'll probably wait till a little bit longer to take it. I was married for at least 10 years. So there's a provision there that, might be
Jackie Cummings Koski: able to use that.
Yeah. Yeah, I was very, or too pessimistic about social security. There's plenty of unbiased, objective information from the actuaries if you really want to understand it and listen to the Catching Up to FI episode about social security, where this is an expert that's talking about all that.
Now, again, it's not going to help me in our younger years,
but we don't get old one day. we're going to be in our sixties. We're going to be on seventies, eighties. And, I have a great aunt that lived until she was 111. So I
Naseema: But what it does help with is for you to get over the thing of you running out of money though.
Jackie Cummings Koski: That is exactly what it did. And, after being retired for almost five [00:24:00] years, my biggest takeaway thus far is precision is not required. I built in some safety nets and some cushions, but everything that I plan, Oh Two years after retirement, I'm going to be doing this five years after time.
All that's completely different. I wouldn't have been able to say, I want to write this book that just came about. So there'll always be curl balls. There's always changes build in whatever cushions you can social security can be that one So if you don't want to include it in your numbers, that's fine But knowing that it probably will be there that could be your nice little buffer To help you feel a little bit better and on top of that, you know since I retired I haven't been pulling off 4 percent each year if I've got other income, that keeps me from having to pull off from my investments.
But the first two years I was pulling off about the 4 percent because I was in school and I
was spending money.
So yeah, even though I pulled off, some of my money already. My net worth and [00:25:00] my investable assets has grown,
Naseema: Yeah, still
grow. That compounded intro is crazy.
Jackie Cummings Koski: So that makes me feel a lot better.
and of course, when COVID hit, I'm like, I've retired at the wrong time. what if I lose all my
money? And it was only down, the market was down for like maybe three, four, by the summer, it bounced back.
Naseema: bounce back. In a major way, too.
Jackie Cummings Koski: in a
major way. I think we ended that year, 2020,
Naseema: Mm
hmm. Mm hmm.
Jackie Cummings Koski: P 500 did and then 2022 was a pretty bad year for the market and I was tracking my investments then and I was down like, 21%.
So that didn't feel good either. But 2023 was awesome. 2024 is off to a great. So it's always going to go up and down, but in the long run, the stock market is up way more years than it's down.
Naseema: Yep, on average, 70 percent
Jackie Cummings Koski: on average.
Naseema: But so when you retire, you had your retirement account at your company. You took that money. Did you put it into your own? You went ahead and just had them transfer it [00:26:00] over to your own IRA. And then do you do withdrawals monthly? You just plan out what you think you need a month or do you do it for the year?
How does that look?
Jackie Cummings Koski: Early on a lot of it was like in my brokerage account. So I didn't have to worry about the retirement piece of that. But what I did set up the year that I retire or a couple of years before I had three months worth of living expenses in cash, not invested in the stock market. Cause I didn't want anything to come between me and my early retirement.
Okay. Even though the stock market was up 30 percent in 2019, when I retired that little piece was my safety and it was my money to live off of without having any worry or concern about what the stock market was doing. So that was a big deal. Now, I did learn even taking money out of my brokerage account or whatever.
I typically will do that quarterly. I didn't do it annually. I didn't like the idea of doing it annually because anything could happen. 2020 is a, is a good example. 2020, I got both [00:27:00] stimulus checks because it was based on 2019 and 2018. And also they had a special provision again, timing just works out.
Sometimes they had it where you could take money directly out of your IRA and not pay a penalty just for that
year. So I took it out that way. Cause I'm like, I'm so young that I can't take it out normally without a
penalty. So I went ahead and did that cause I knew that was going to be a one time opportunity.
But yeah, quarterly seemed to work out better for me. Cause I don't like seeing my balance getting down too low because before you know it, I still have a mortgage, but before you know what the mortgage is coming out and a bunch of bills are hitting at the same
time. So, I I'm more comfortable doing it quarterly.
I think annual, It's hard to map out 12 months to me. So that's too long. And then a month to me is just not enough. So I've been doing it about quarterly. And then I have to look at, do I have anything that's coming in? And you know how, when you do it in projects, you don't know when it's going to come in.
So I, I have to be careful about, not depending on that. I don't [00:28:00] count on it until it's in my hand or in my
Naseema: Right. Got you. Okay. Thanks for explaining that because there's not a lot of people who are actually early retired that will sit down and tell you, okay, this is how I pull my money because a lot of people who are early retired that I know still have active incomes. They're not drawing down from their retirement.
Most people retire into something. So they're technically not retire, but retire from their main thing. So it's just
Jackie Cummings Koski: gotten there yet, but I need some checks to start rolling in, but I'm,
Naseema: but still, but you're not sitting still. And that's the other thing I want to speak about. You are out here you're studying, getting your CMP, which is a designation that not a lot of black women in this country have. So
let me give You your flowers.
What's the
Jackie Cummings Koski: so the CFP that's considered the gold standard for financial planning. Most people are familiar with that. And you do go through a rigorous process. There's a crazy hard exam. You have to have these education classes that you have to take.
You have to have 6, 000 hours of [00:29:00] experience. I was not even going down that road. I was at Kansas State to get my Master's in Financial Therapy. But then there was these other six classes that, turned out fulfilled the requirement for the CFP exam. So I'm like, I'm not going to get my CFP. I'm an educator.
That's where my heart is. That's what I want to do. And I want to touch the masses. I want to touch many people, not this one on one where you can barely handle 200 clients. As I'm going through it, I am learning about the CFP, the statistics, and I'm talking to more and more people that are doing it, sitting for it.
So I was a part of that world. And. When I saw the statistic that said there's right at 100,000 people with their CFPs, okay? And only 2%, I'll repeat that, 2 percent are black.
Naseema: That's not even a
Jackie Cummings Koski: 2%, okay. Black women, it's probably even less because the industry is primarily male.
Naseema: Mm [00:30:00] hmm.
Jackie Cummings Koski: For women, it's only about 21%. So how many women are in this world?
I would say about half. So it's not even women, women are not even represented, right? So I'm thinking about this and I'm like, even though I don't want to practice in the traditional sense like that, why shouldn't everybody have access to the mind of a CFP?
Why shouldn't everyone have that? There's plenty of things that I can do one to many the same way you educate your clients one on
Naseema: Mm hmm. Mm
Jackie Cummings Koski: So, so that got me thinking and I applied for the scholarship and I ended up getting it and that scholarship. Said that you had to sit for the exam within a year. I'm like so that gave me my timeline. I'm like, okay, I got to do this. So that's what headed me down that road. And I didn't even know if I would pass the 1st.
I just know the program I took. Oh, my God. It was just very dated to me. We got these big, thick books that were not all the programs are like that. I wouldn't have taken this program again, but it was definitely not a good fit, but I didn't have time for that. I had to study for
this exam.
Yeah. [00:31:00] So I just started getting all kinds of other resources. I'm an auditory
and visual learner. So I started looking at all these friends we got in the personal finance space. Many are CFDs. I started putting together a podcast list. It's if you wasn't talking about material that was going to be an exam, you got deleted.
And so it was podcasts, YouTube, and there was some amazing content where the way that they explain things was so much better than I was getting in my program. So I wouldn't have skipped taking a program, but I needed this supplement like desperately. And that was the game changer for me. And I'd started feeling okay, now I'm getting it.
Cause I feel like when I wasn't understanding certain things, I'm like, is it because I haven't practiced? What was it? Because I'm not looking to do this one on one stuff. Is it because I haven't really worked with wealthy people a lot? And, those weren't the reasons. It was just that the way that it was being explained was just so dry and dull.
And it just wasn't exciting to me. But we have lots of friends that makes this financial stuff sound very [00:32:00] exciting, even plenty of CSPs that are in our space. So I ended up honestly, when I walked in to take my exam. I didn't know if I would pass or not. I was trying to track it. I was trying to be as organized and as thorough as possible.
But you can't study 10 hours a day. So I don't care if I was retired. My brain can only take so much. And when you get done with the exam, you're notified right there on the screen. And it's in tiny little, like a 6 point font. On the screen. And I guess they do that because maybe if you fail, you don't want everybody to see, but it's really tiny.
It's really tiny. And when I got that, I swear, I almost fainted and see my, I swear it was, there was so much stress. It was one of the most stressful times in my life. Just all the anxiety, all the buildup. It was awful. But part of that was I took one for the team. Now I'm a black woman.
That does have my CFP and I spread it as much as I can. I wave in as many people as I can. [00:33:00] I'm very, very visible, Jackie Cossey CFP. And it's not because I'm bragging about working with a bunch of wealthy people. It's just that I feel like everybody should have access to. CFP level stuff, and that's not the only way you get really smart on a topic, but that's the one of the types of social proof right until they get to know you.
And so I want to see more black women. I want to see more women. I want to see more diversity, and it's not to take anything away from some of my amazing white male friends. Some of them have helped me along and they've been awesome as well. They probably have been part of my success. So to me, we all win.
There's no limit to who can have the CFP or how many
Naseema: Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Congratulations. I'm proud of you
Jackie Cummings Koski: if you ever want to go down that road, I got your back.
Naseema: As much as I love to follow in your footstep, that probably is not 1 of the ways I would do it. I love [00:34:00] the personal finance space, but the CFP to me is a lot. It's like me getting my doctorate in nursing.
It's probably not going
Jackie Cummings Koski: Oh, wow. Yeah. And, and let me just say this. So even though you're not interested, one of the connections that I did make, and I definitely want to mention it on your podcast is that there are a lot of very smart, amazing influencers in our space or content creators or thought leaders. Now, not all of them want to go down the CFP route.
Okay. And then there's also something called the AFC accredited financial counselor, but these credentials often can. Make a difference in the content that you create and the clients that you attract. Okay? So if there's anyone, any influencer, and because I feel like it's not a big jump for most influencers.
'cause the number one issue that people have that's getting their CFP is getting the experience hours. And of course, I did a lot of digging. It used to be where the only thing that counted for experience hours was one-on-one, financial planning. Now you can be a blogger, a podcast, or a journalist, a writer.
All of that. You know what I did for my experience? I was, I went back and all that [00:35:00] education I was doing, all of that content creation, all of that
stuff, that pretty much got me to my 6, 000 hours. But 10 years ago, before that change was made, I would not have been able to do it. That's a lot of freaking hours.
That's three years full time.
Naseema: I was actually thinking That a CFP limits the amount you're able to share on social media and all that kind of stuff, like that was the impression that I got if you have a CFP, you're bound to certain standards, so you can't share as freely because then it can be taken as financial advice.
So for me as a content creator that, likes to put it all out there, I felt like it would have been limiting, but from what you're saying, it seems
Jackie Cummings Koski: Not really, I think a lot of people thought that because if you think about all the CFPs that are out there now creating content, there's a lot of them. And it just has to be, usually there's a disclaimer and it's for education and information purposes only because I'm an educated heart, you an educated heart, I'm not giving.
Individual advice, because I don't know your particular [00:36:00] situation, but I know how to educate. Okay. So like some financial plans, they're back off real quick. When you ask about taxes, they'll be like, Oh, I can't talk about taxes. I don't do taxes. That's an exaggeration. Okay. If somebody asking about the tax bracket, that's not giving advice, telling them how tax brackets work.
When somebody is asking about AGI, it just doesn't work. Tell them what AGI, you can be an educated like a 401k. I'm not advising you what to choose, but I can show you how to read your statement.
I can show you how to look at the different timeframes. I can show you how to find out what funds you're invested in.
So everything I do is always around education. I use a disclaimer, but I don't have an issue like that. And typically it's going to go back to their compliance officer. So it's, Okay. Typically, when you work for a firm, especially
Naseema: you. Yeah, that's
Jackie Cummings Koski: then they have all kinds of complaints. They go overboard.
I, I had a friend that had told me that at their firm, they're not even allowed to say the word cryptocurrency.
Naseema: That is so funny. He
Jackie Cummings Koski: I'm like,
Naseema: [00:37:00] alternative currency,
Jackie Cummings Koski: he's they think it could be misconscrued as advice. I'm like, or endorsing it or whatever. And I'm like, You can say that about anything. So it doesn't even make any sense.
So some people just go overboard with that. And a lot of times it's because of compliance and that's what the firm standards are. So I don't have an issue. Because honestly, In my heart of hearts, I can't give anyone specific advice. Like I live in Ohio. I'm a single mom, unless you're also like exactly like me, I can't give you anything specific, but I can give you some parameters.
I can educate you. I can give you some scenarios and some examples. There's nothing wrong with that.
Naseema: Now you can give people this book that you just read.
Jackie Cummings Koski: Exactly. And that was, that was part of the one, one of the check marks that I got
to check off because, I talked to a lot of people over the years, a lot of groups, some individuals, and, you start to get the same questions again and again.
And to me, for every person that's asking that question, that is a valid [00:38:00] question.
And they deserve an answer. So I'm glad that I do have something that I can say, I wrote about it in there and, Wiley gave me free range to structure this book that I wanted to. They had, of course, their four dummies template, but I really didn't have any restrictions.
They saw me as the expert that needed to lay this out. I did the outline and I did all of that. So if I were to lay it out for someone, It's laid out in this book where almost anyone could find, even a high schooler could follow a lot of what's in the book, but if we never got the foundation, we didn't have it at school.
We didn't get taught about it at home. It wasn't in our environment. We weren't exposed to it. Then you don't know. And so I, I don't like really skipping because when I skip that makes it more difficult for me to learn even like a lot of the CFP stuff I'm going to next gen personal finance sometimes, which is for high schoolers to learn, get the basic platform [00:39:00] and then I can layer on top.
But if you skip the platform, it could make it so difficult to really grasp it. If you didn't, get that foundation early on and had a good. Fundamental understanding of it.
Naseema: Mm-Hmm. . So, let's walk through this book and how it's formatted and how it can take somebody from zero knowledge about fire, about personal finance to a place where they're comfortable with understanding the concepts and at a point where they can start applying it for themselves.
Jackie Cummings Koski: Yeah. So I start out as basic as you can get what does FIERA stand for? So and I always try to say it again, that's just my educator at heart, but financial independence retire early and Yes, it was written for people that would like to, go through the steps of FIRE and fill in whatever gaps they have, but also, since I'm in the financial planning space as well, sometimes financial planners will get it wrong.
But just like a lot of people, if they're looking at just what the media puts out, they get it wrong. So [00:40:00] I wanted to put very clear, balanced information about what FIRE is. And use this as your guide to get a better understanding of it, rather than just reading from one article, the job of the media is to get as many readers or viewers as they possibly can.
So, what gets people there a salacious headline, the most
extreme case, and that's fine. They're doing their job, but that doesn't necessarily represent, the whole. So there's a lot of different type of people that this book would be good for. If you just want a better understanding of fire, you want to help it on your journey to fire, or you just want to learn about it to how to get started.
So I try to make the distinction between. The basis of what F. I. R. E. stands for to the F. I. R. E. movement and the F. I. R. E. community, big differences. Okay. With the movement, it's all about buying back your time, being [00:41:00] free from, or decoupling yourself from a job.
You can be passionate and do what you love.
It doesn't mean that you have to do that every day. Through the vessel of an employer.
Okay.
And just being able to be in a position where you can manage your own time, where you can set your own mornings, and really do what you're passionate about. I never got the opportunity when I was younger, I wasn't told, Oh, do what you love, honey.
No. You need to pay your bills, that was the main thing. And to get away from that, you just need to work to pay your bills. That's a powerful thing. And so when you move to that point, you're more creative. Like a lot of the stuff that I'm doing now, honestly, I could have done it while I was working, but my mind was not free enough. I wasn't creative. By the time I got home from work after work at nine or 10 hours, my brain was tired. There was no more creativity you could squeeze out. But now, I get up in the morning. I got all these [00:42:00] creative and great ideas. I can't keep up with some of the ideas that pop in my head.
And then I get to work with more people. Like I get to work with you. And I said, and a lot of people are like, a lot of people are like, okay. I wouldn't have any friends if I left work, I'm like, Oh boy, yeah, you need to get a bigger network. And that's what we were accustomed most, at a certain point in time, most of your friends were at work.
Okay. And they were the people you work with. Of course, they're going to be some amazing people that you stick with, forever, even after you leave, but then there's some that you're only in their space and they're only in your space by
default. So I guess default friends, if you will. Now I get to customize that people that inspire me.
People that I adore, people that make me feel good, people that I love to make feel good. Like I'm happy most days now because I'm in the space of people that I respect and I admire. They cheer me on, I cheer them on. And that is so valuable to, my mind, my [00:43:00] spirit, my days, and all of that.
So I just think about all the amazing people that I have met since I retired. If I didn't retire, I would have never had the opportunity to meet them. They would have not come into my life. So I'm grateful for that. I'm grateful for that.
Naseema: I love it. Aw, that's so inspirational. So I like that you get to put that like in the book, because I feel like there's this narrative around fire that it's just for, those dual income, single. White male, like people in the engineering or tech fields, and a lot of people, that's what they associate with fire.
And I, got a little teary eyed when I was reading the book and realized like. Like legit, like Jackie, I was looking through there and then it was like the 10 people you need to know in a personal finance space. And then I was like, yes, yes, yes. All those people. And then I saw my [00:44:00] name on the list and I was like, no Oh my God.
I can't take it, but I think It's about exposing people to what's possible and that it looks different for everyone. And of course, I'm truly like humbled to even be included because I feel like I'm among some really, really great people.
Jackie Cummings Koski: Many to name just so
But your name was definitely up and, you can count the number of followers and your Instagram is crazy and the number of downloads and all that from whatever platform you got from a technical perspective. But I think what you represent is a different aspect of fire and a different journey that we don't see enough.
And that's why that's so meaningful to me.
Naseema: Again, I'm like, so honored to be included. I'm glad I didn't get, cut by the, just not by her enough. You always have that imposter syndrome anyway, but I want to know what's uniquely different. I mean everybody recognizes like this for dummies brand and number one, it's [00:45:00] incredible that you get to count your name
among the other authors that have been able to take advantage of this space. But what does it mean to write a book like a four dummies book? And how do you think it's a different way to talk about personal finances than perhaps you've done traditionally?
Jackie Cummings Koski: Yeah, that's a really good question. You're asking some good questions. Look at you. You're not like , the interviewer extraordinaire. I need to be taking notes over here, but that is interesting though. I did write a book 10 years ago. Now, part of my program in undergrad was journalism.
So I love writing. That is one of my hobbies. People ask, what do you like to do? I really do enjoy writing. So when I wrote the book money letters to my daughter, it was a labor of love. I was just wanting to teach. My daughter, all the things that I learned. And I put it in the format of these short little letters that was like very pithy and to the point.
And turns out, it did pretty good. A lot of other people were interested in it, but it was a self published book. Took me two and a half years to write it. I was working at the time. But I finally called it [00:46:00] finished and I was very proud. That will forever be my greatest work because it was written to my daughter.
And and it was early on before self publishing was even a big thing. That would have been 2013. And so that was a very different approach than working with a big traditional publisher. Wiley is like one of the top five publishers or something like that. And the Dummies brand is just so recognizable.
The main difference, and I appreciated the latitude that they gave me. They saw me as the expert. They asked me to put together what I thought the book should be. The outline and all of that, and I think the thing I appreciate the most was they got all these professionals they got 10 different editors.
So the acquisitions editor, that was the 1st person I dealt with and she's the main person on it. Then you've got the. Copy editor. You've got the development editor that helps make sure the flow is in a place. And then they let me pick my own [00:47:00] technical editor, the subject matter person. And I chose Fireframe Cody Garrett.
So Cody Garrett, he's a genius. So of course I was going to pick him. And. And I was hoping that he said yes, and he did. And so he was looking at all the technical stuff and I'm sure he was looking at some of it saying, this girl passed the CFP exam.
Naseema: You're so funny.
Jackie Cummings Koski: So yeah, so that was crazy. But so then even after that, then there's yet more editors and more people like, then you've got a promotions person. You've got just all these different roles. And I'm thinking, boy. I get to work with these people and this is their whole job, and so girl, I was taking notes, taking notes the whole time because when I'm ready to write my next book I'm gonna remember all the things that I learned from working with these professionals.
Jackie Cummings Koski: So that was one of the main differences, but they really weren't editing for my content per se, like I was the expert I needed to they couldn't tell me, Oh, [00:48:00] don't they need to do this first?
No, that I, that was my job. And I just remember, so they're looking for grammar. They're looking for do things make sense. Does the reader follow it as a non fire person? So I remember one time or one section of the book. Okay. I put in VTSAX, and we in the fire committee know what that
is.
And one
Naseema: that is.
Jackie Cummings Koski: of the editor's notes was, can you spell out this acronym? Now,
Naseema: Oh, poor
Jackie Cummings Koski: that, and their job, if you think about it, if somebody's reading that book and they go to that chapter, they may not know what that is.
And so I did put it in parentheses. This is a total stock. This is the ticker for the total stock market Vanguard index fund. Yeah. So yeah, I was working with a bunch of pros where this was their job.
They knew what they were doing. They kept me on task. I had the deadlines too, because they're a business. And so that was probably the thing that was the toughest for me. Cause, I learned that I don't like writing on demand. I [00:49:00] love to write. It's an outlet for me. But boy, writing on demand is just my brain doesn't work like that.
And I think mentally I Was thinking that I was thinking about the deadline and that sometimes gave me some writer's block. You said you experienced that a little bit too. Yeah. Those were the main differences. Obviously since they have such a big name, they are immediately probably going to be in most bookstores, Barnes and Nobles, in libraries, it's easy.
When I self published book, it was so hard to do some of that stuff. And then they'll automatically be in Canada, the UK, and probably a bunch of other countries.
Naseema: Oh, that's so cool. I didn't even think about the international exposure, but,
Jackie Cummings Koski: the international exposure, they sold, they said that up front. So there's some, a little bit of international stuff in there for our Canadian friends and our UK friends.
But I, I learned just like the first book, I did learn a lot about myself. Initially when they gave me the page count, which was over 300 pages, I'm like, there's no way there's no 300 pages here.
And I, so I started fudging [00:50:00] the numbers a little bit. And then when I. Was doing it chapter by chapter. Every chapter was over the
number of pages that I fudged
right and I did. I like the idea of having graphics and visual. So those are in there too to help support, people's learning. Yeah, it was an interesting process I'm just happy to have it behind me, and happy that it's out there, because it is, it's exhausting, it really is very exhausting, because you have to go full speed, for me, it was like six or seven months, full
speed, and I just needed to just step away, I didn't have the luxury to step away for three months, if I felt like it.
With my other book, I did.
Naseema: Yes. And so you came back fresh, but yeah, it's done it's done. So when is it when is it coming out?
Jackie Cummings Koski: So this will probably air After the book is out, right? It comes out on April 30th.
Naseema: Okay, I can move it it's
Jackie Cummings Koski: Okay. Okay. That's my girl. That's my girl. I got it like that. so
Naseema: we will make sure that it airs that week
Jackie Cummings Koski: yeah, I believe [00:51:00] that the Kindle, the digital version is available, but the printed copy, they're still saying April 30th. Now, every book I've ever pre ordered, I've gotten it before the official release date. So maybe mine will come a few days early. I don't know, but the official launch date, we'll be having a big party and doing all kinds of crazy stuff, but April the 30th is official launch day.
Naseema: okay, yes, we will be partying on that day that is two weeks exactly from today actually So yes, april 30th is two tuesdays
Jackie Cummings Koski: Yeah. It's getting
Naseema: Do you have to do any additional like marketing book tours anything
Jackie Cummings Koski: Yeah. Book tours aren't what they used to be like book tours used to be physically where you're traveling all over the place. You don't need to do that anymore. No jail college just launched his pathfinders pretty much all online. And to be honest, You touch so many more people online
and this is post COVID as well.
So what book [00:52:00] tours look like before COVID versus now are very different. So the book tours are pretty much you're on a lot of podcasts and, we have a lot of, friends in the space that have podcasts or different platforms and the really close friends, reached out to me as soon as they knew I had a book.
Or if I reached out to them, they said a quick, yes, like you did just to talk about it and get it in the hands of your audience, because you already know who I am and my belief is that a book is simply an extension of what you already do and what you talk about. So to be able to get it in this very organized fashion, that's very available to everyone.
And each chapter actually stands on its own if it's referencing something that's new It's going to reference the chapter and all of that. So that's pretty much the book tour i'll be doing a few extra things and a lot of people will come to me with different opportunities And if they know you have a book you might be more likely to say yes or whatever So yeah, I'm getting it out there just to really have more people be [00:53:00] aware that this is Available that you don't have to have all these questions that never get answered.
Most of it is going to be in the book. So I may do some things around Q and a's or book clubs or talking to media to just answer some questions around the behind the scenes of the book to flush out some things in the book, or just broadly what, fire is what it represents and a book is just typically a basis, for doing that.
It's a credential, if you will, a little social proof that, Hey, this is someone that, knows a lot about fire and, having the credentials, didn't hurt. So that was helpful too.
Naseema: Yes. I love it. So April 30th. Oh my God. That's so exciting. I'm going to be celebrating like that day is marked off for you,
Jackie.
Jackie Cummings Koski: sister.
Naseema: And then I'll make sure I get my physical copy as well, because I want to be standing on the ground with it. You
know, where my yellow soccer
mask is.
Jackie Cummings Koski: your, your [00:54:00] Instagram is crazy, man. I, if I don't look at nothing each day, it's your Instagram. Okay. I'm like, and, and, and all of my nieces and stuff, they want somebody cool. They don't want their aunt, so I'm like, okay, you need to check her out. And it's so funny that several of them are in the medical field.
So that kind of helps too.
Naseema: Oh, that's so cool. That's so cool. Ooh, I can be a little bit of an inspiration for
Jackie Cummings Koski: girl, you're inspiration to a lot of people, a lot of people.
Naseema: Ooh, I'm still trying to get my life together, so that's a little scary, but Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!
Jackie Cummings Koski: And I think part of it is that you're so real, you're willing to show the good, the bad and the ugly. And I, I realized this when I was writing my first book. And I had my daughter reading some of the letters and her favorite letters were the ones where I talked about my mistakes or something I
did wrong.
Because then that made me more real. And I don't know why I didn't realize that before, but she just, basically she's what other stuff do you have that talks about your mistakes? I'm like, [00:55:00] so I, I love to see the bumps and the bruises and the imperfections, and it's, To me, it's even more inspiring to see someone move the needle and make progress versus, if you were born on third base and, oh yeah, you made it home.
Okay.
Naseema: I, I try because I feel like a lot of people put out only their wins. And, if they have this Rags to Riches story, it's all about it looks so linear. It Like, Oh, I did this thing. And then all of a sudden I'm a trillionaire, and it's not that it's you did this thing, you learned some things, you messed up, you made some mistakes, you had to start over, you got in bad relationships that jacked you up, like it's all of those things that people either don't put out there or, they don't think it's relevant.
And I feel like transparency. and sharing your mistakes is where most people learn. And again, it's where most people think okay, like she's relatable. So then I can do these things. And so that's what I try [00:56:00] to do. And plus me, I just keep it real no matter
Jackie Cummings Koski: I, and, and I, then that's, that's why I love you so much. That's why I love you. And and one thing I decided to do in the book, and you were probably the part of the inspiration is that I made sure I put, something I called My non fire confessions. So just stuff that I did that I know don't really align.
Like I drive a luxury car with that uses premium gas. Okay. or or I talk about when I took a 401k loan, I don't regret even doing that because the service was great. And I explained in the book, the circumstances said, you know what, that's a pretty smart way to do it. I didn't use it to, pay off reoccurring debt.
I didn't have an issue with that. But again, looking at my own situation, I wouldn't necessarily recommend it to anyone else. To just use it to go buy a boat or anything. This was 2010, like you had really good dirt, cheap housing prices. And if it gave me a benefit to pay cash, that's how it, but anyway, there was some that were just stupid mistakes that I'll never make again.
But some of them, I put some thought into it, but they would still be considered [00:57:00] non fire. So I expose a lot of my non fire confessions. We all have them.
Naseema: I love that. I love that, but yeah, it's real. It's real. We're not perfect. Some of those things work out for us. Some of those things don't, but I think people need to know that you don't have to be perfect in order to be successful. You can make the mistakes and still have forward motion. And a lot of times people just don't do things because they're scared of making mistakes and that's not the right approach.
Jackie Cummings Koski: The mistakes. I don't even call them mistakes anymore. I call them lessons. And I don't know who said it originally, but I perked up when I heard Denzel Washington say it, but he said, if you're not making mistakes, then you're not even trying.
Naseema: Hmm. 100%. 100%. When did Zell say something? You know we gotta listen. But anyway, Jackie girl, this has been so good. April 30th is the day for you guys to get this book. I'm going to be sharing it. I'm going to be [00:58:00] giving away some copies, talking about it. I actually have a Tuesday episode on April 30th that that's going to release on April 30th.
And I'll do my own book review. And then in that
Jackie Cummings Koski: that's a friend right there now
Naseema: Book. Yes. If you're in the U S because international tipper rates ain't the business. But yeah, I'm going to be doing that. We'll make sure this episode comes out before April 30th. And I just want to thank you again for just grace me with your presence.
And also, the craziness, of course, I had to hold the baby the whole
Jackie Cummings Koski: I love it. Look mom over here girl. I'm, just glad my days are over. I
hear you
Naseema: Yeah. One in the background, waking up, you
Jackie Cummings Koski: That makes you even more amazing. The way we have to multitask. It's like this fire stuff ain't nothing. If you've been a mom,
Naseema: Listen, listen, people just don't understand the struggle. Sometimes somebody like put on the comments on time Oh my God. Like, why would she have her baby? Listen, the interview. He wasn't bothered. The baby was fine. [00:59:00] Like, why are you so
Jackie Cummings Koski: girl, I wanted, I know I wanted the babies to be here, so I'm like, could you bring the kiddos, have them ask me some questions. but, and, a part of our thick skin is, we learned that, People, what they say is more their, what's in their head space than anything else.
So I, I just bring on the comments, bring them on, bring them on. And it's if it's something negative, I'm like, so that might mean that I'm human. Is that right?
Naseema: No, I'm not perfect at all. But then for like, where are you coming from? Where do you think it's okay to say something like that? It's my thing. I'm just like, you know what? Let me have some empathy for what you're going through because it's something not right. Because happy people, people that have their stuff figured out don't make those kinds of comments because they're too busy living their best life.
And so for those people who are in that space, I pray for them to have some grace and, Be able to overcome the things that they're going
Jackie Cummings Koski: Yeah, it took me a while to learn that Naseema, because like when you're new and you think you're doing something great and somebody leaves something negative, it's like devastating. And boy, I just made it full circle where I'm like, okay, [01:00:00] let's hear them because I know it's more about what's in their headspace.
I would get comments about, oh, you took half your money, your husband's money. Of course, you're, you got a
Naseema: That part right there. Oh my God. Oh
my
Jackie Cummings Koski: $60,000. I'm now worth 2 million. And that was like 20 years ago. But for all I know, he could have just caught his wife sleeping with his best friends and she took him to the clean, that
that's his, I have no idea what's going on with him, but I know that it's not about the stranger on the internet,
it's about whatever you have going on,
Naseema: I'm glad because, you've been on national media a lot. And when that happens, it opens up the floodgates. To haters, like they love coming for you, especially you're a black woman in this space. Why would you deserve to be here? Why would they even write about you?
And so it's hard, it's hard, but you got to understand that that's, their own issues. And I'm glad you were able to come full circle because it can be enough to take somebody out, especially like [01:01:00] if they don't know, or, a lot of people just. Cannot internalize that kind of stuff and it's detrimental physically and mentally.
And
Jackie Cummings Koski: look, look, Celie said, and in the color purple, we still here. We still here. We still here,
Naseema: Exactly. I've been through a lot worse. Okay. You calling me something on the internet is not going to break me
Jackie Cummings Koski: It's
that's all you got. That's all you got.
My, my niece that's a eight years old. She could do better than that. Come with it. Come These kids, my kids, every day, the stuff they say to me, I'm just like okay. But anyway, Jackie, thank you so much for being on the podcast. You guys make sure you pick up that fire for dummies book coming out on April 30th. And I'm always down to rock with you, whatever you're doing. I'm always going to be a cheerleader in the background for you or whatever you need.
Naseema: I'm here and I'm just grateful that I get to call you my friend. Yeah.
Jackie Cummings Koski: just going to keep riding, [01:02:00] keep riding and keep doing our thing. We're both putting out great content. Again, not a whole lot look like us, but we just going to keep doing it. We're going to keep doing it. So I appreciate it. This is my best conversation of the whole year.
Probably. I love it, girl.
Naseema: Thank you.
Hey there I’m Naseema
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