M is for Money: A Practical Approach For Teaching Kids About Money - Episode 16

Teach your kids practical applications of finance so that they can navigate their lives not having to chase money. Rob has been a pivotal figure in shaping how our kids learn about money. His illustrative children's book “M is for Money” teaches the ABCs of personal finance in an inclusive way that makes money accessible to everyone. Loving to side hustle, Rob also shares how he is helping teaches supplement their income and expanding educational resources in the classroom at the same time.

About Our Guest: Rob Phelan is a high school personal finance teacher in Maryland with a passion for helping young people learn how to do better with their money before the financial mistake of adulthood kick in. He is a Certified Financial Education Instructor, small business owner, and children's money book author.

Make sure to grab your copy of M is for Money and check out Rob’s Teachers Pay Teachers site for educational resources if you are a teacher or a parent wishing to supplement your child’s education. 

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TRANSCRIPT:

[00:00:00] Naseema McElroy: What's up? My financially intentional people. I'm super honored to have my good friend Rob Fellen joining us. Hey Rob.

[00:00:09] Rob Phelan: Hey Zima. How's it going?

[00:00:11] Naseema McElroy: Good. So Rob is a teacher and a financial educator who has. Really revolutionized financial education in the classroom and talks about how we talk to the younger people about money.

He's the author of M Is for Money, which my book happens to be featured in, which my kids love to look at. So I appreciate being part of that journey. I'm gonna turn it over to you, Rob, cuz I really wanna know what sparked your interest in personal finance and kind of how you got to where you are today.

[00:00:48] Rob Phelan: Well first off, thank you again for, you know, being a supporter of AM Amateur Money. So, yeah, when you say your book's in it, it actually is, it's in the illustrations in the background, which was a really. Fun way to help promote the book. I did a Kickstarter for it, which was a great way to bring something like this to life if you don't really have the funds upfront to, to bring something like a book into the world or you wanna try and do it as cheaply as possible.

But hey everybody, I'm my name's Rob Felan. As Naima said, I'm a high school teacher. I teach personal finance in math in Maryland, and a lot of different side businesses and different things going on at the same time, as well as my full-time. I'm super passionate about helping young people to learn about money so they can make much better decisions than we did in our twenties and thirties.

And start building wealth from a young age. Get to that point where they're not stressed about money. Work becomes optional. All the great stuff that comes with financial independence and being financially intentional.

[00:01:39] Naseema McElroy: Love it. I love it. And I also love that your mom is a nurse. . Yeah, she

[00:01:44] Rob Phelan: is. , still practicing part-time.

She loves it. She doesn't wanna give it up. .

[00:01:50] Naseema McElroy: It's one of those things like people always ask me like, when am I retiring from nursing or am I doing this to retire from nursing? I'm just like, no, I, I love nursing. This is hard. Like I'm trying to retire from this , but I can be a nurse and deliver babies for the rest of my life.

I can just do it on my own terms, and that's what financial independence means to me. It's making work optional. It's working when you want to. But when you are doing the things that you really enjoy, work is not hard. It's just that nursing can be physically taxing, so you don't wanna have to be bound to working, especially if, you're at the bedside.

And so I love that your mom is still working part-time. And I also love your approach to. the way that you did your book. As far as like the Kickstarter and including people in the journey, like I really felt like I was part of publishing this book and it was like, I don't know, when I wrote my book, I wrote it during Covid in eight weeks as a nurse working full-time actually overtime cuz it was just crazy.

And I just remember the P T S D from that. But the way that , you did your book, it seems super joyous and inclusive of the community. Mm-hmm. And so I really, really like that approach that you

[00:03:06] Rob Phelan: took. You wrote a book in eight weeks. Yes. You're

[00:03:10] Naseema McElroy: crazy. I know. and it was probably the only way I would've gotten it done, cuz if I hadn't had that strict timeline, I would've, you know, procrastinated.

You know, that work expands the amount of time you give it. And so, even though I'm still recovering from it, I am glad that it. Yes, .

[00:03:27] Rob Phelan: And if you're not familiar with either of our books, I mean, Nasima is a book, book. Like this is an actual book. Mine is a children's book. Mine's 32 pages long and mine took six months to make

So the fact that she brought out an actual real book in eight weeks is incredible to me. But yeah, this was a, a children's book. It was meant for our youngest reader. So my son is three years old right now, and I started writing this when he was one. I wanted to start teaching about money from as young and age as possible.

The reading I had been doing, you know, parenting books that talk about raising money savvy kids, we're all pointing to starting as young as possible, that as soon as your kid starts asking questions about buying things, you know, you walk through a store and they put their hand on something like, I want it.

You can start talking to them about the exchange of money for things and where money comes from and how we get it, how we manage it, how we have to make choices, because it's a limited resource that we have. My kid loves books. He's a, he loves books. We read to 'em all the time, and there wasn't much there.

We were looking for something that talked to his age groups or two years old and didn't see anything. There was like a Bernstein Bears book that was ancient. It was a couple of other, you know, Not great books out there. But there was a lot of us independent authors that were starting to bring these book ideas to life.

And I was like, okay, well I could do that. I'm not your creative writer who's gonna write in, you know, Rhyme the entire way or anything like that. But I can certainly do something like an ABCs of Money book and I know the right words to be introducing. I know how to introduce it in an age appropriate way, and that was what I could bring to the table, and that's what I wanted to do.

I wanted to bring a book that would help introduce. Money as a topic at home and kind of bridge the gap for parent to just have conversations about money at home. And like you said, the illustrations were super important to me. I mean, they're the real star of the book. It's not the words, the illustration, so that's not me at all.

But I wanted inclusivity. I wanted everyone to feel like, , I can do money. It's not reserved for just the rich, white guy. It's reserved for anybody who wants to take the time to learn about it. And we all might be starting from different places, but we can all do this money journey and try and run this money race.

Yeah.

[00:05:40] Naseema McElroy: I really love the book. The, the illustrations are epic. It does feel very inclusive. And so I just like the approach and I understand why it took six months because I mean, like, those things do take time, like to make sure illustrations match up with the images. And because you were including so many people in the book as well,

[00:06:00] Rob Phelan: Michael Illustrator had no clue what he.

For because like I, I did like a job description. I went into a, so if you want to ever write children's book my advice to you would be go on to Facebook, find children's book author groups. There are thousands of children's book authors out there and illustrators who are looking to match with one another.

So I created job description, interviewed several people who were interested in doing the illustrations for the. and I told him exactly what it was gonna be and I don't think he realized when he signed up that he was signing up for 62 unique characters who are all gonna look very different, act very different, have different abilities.

Lots of different scenes in the background. So you know, a lot of children's books, they stay in the same spot or mm-hmm , you have one central character who repeats throughout the thing. Mine did not every page had different characters on it. So like you said, it took forever to get the illustrations back cuz there was so.

Detail that went into them.

[00:06:49] Naseema McElroy: Yeah. And my kids love the book, by the way, . Thank you. You're welcome. But yeah, that did seem like a big task, but I wanna know specifically how you approach teaching kids about money. It's one of those things that I feel like a lot of parents are struggling with because a lot of us weren't taught about money or the way.

Approach. Money now is a lot different. Even if you think about like what options were available to our parents versus what options we have available to us, it wouldn't even be realistic to even say that our parents can teach us in a way that's even relevant now. So I wanna just talk about your approach to teaching kids about money.

[00:07:34] Rob Phelan: It is a very different world in terms of what's available, but it's also a very similar world. I mean, the, the core concepts of money haven't changed for probably centuries, that it's that exchange of value for goods and services. You have to earn it in some way. None of us have an unlimited supply of it, so you have to make decisions about how you're going to use it.

What's the tradeoff between working a ton and spending on things that you really want? What are your goals in life? That sort of thing. So, I mean, I think the core tenants are still the same. I think a lot of our parents, if they grew up in the us grew up in a society that didn't really. Allow for a lot of money conversations to happen.

It wasn't a, a normal thing to talk about at home. It was a rude conversation to have. You didn't pry into what your parents' financial situation was and then you as the child, like you were protected from that because you were too young, innocent to have any conversation about money. It was this like adult topic that you shouldn't be a part of.

Yeah. Other cultures, it's the exact same. Like I've seen cultures around the world where it's like money is, no, no, no, no. We don't talk about that. That's a very private matter for the adults. Kids never know. And I still struggle to talk to my parents about money, even though, you know, I'm in my thirties and I'm trying to figure out, do you guys have a retirement plan?

Do you, are you expecting like this kind of traditional Irish, like the grandparents will move in with the kids and will all take care of each other kind of thing? Or are you gonna be self-sufficient? And it's hard, like they. They don't wanna have that conversation with me. They find it very uncomfortable.

So I'm trying to change that. I'm trying to make it a normal thing to talk about. And I think if we just just did that, if you just took the uncomfortableness out of talking about money, we would all make so many better decisions because now you suddenly have access to all of these people who've done it before you.

They've got this wealth of experience. And it could be good, it could be bad. I mean, you can tell kids what not to do and that's just as helpful as what they should. .

[00:09:27] Naseema McElroy: Yeah. I mean, and I, and I know that it's different when you talk about different ages. So you have a three-year old mm-hmm. . I have a four-year-old and an eight-year-old.

And the way that they look at and think about money is totally. Different, but you also are an educator and you teach money in the classroom, so that's a, on a whole different level. Can you speak to how you have changed kind of the approach to financial education in your educational setting?

[00:09:57] Rob Phelan: Sure. So like when I first started teaching this, I inherited a curriculum that was there already and it was a Dave Ramsey curriculum, which. I guess it's great that there's something out there and there was out there, it wouldn't be my favorite one in the world for a variety of reasons. But what I was looking to change from that to what I do now is that it's not about financial literacy.

And just knowing what the words mean or how the system works, it's a lot more about the decision making that goes behind. , all of these money, words and topics, and knowing yourself and understanding what it's like to make a decision when there's a limited supply of money, or what are your goals, your wants, your needs, and how do you tailor your budget, your spending plan to meet those goals and needs.

So I spend a lot of time just talking to my students and sharing with them and making our classroom a. Safe space to talk about money. And a lot of them come in with this uncomfortable feeling like, this is weird, we don't normally talk about this. And then they start opening up about it and like, oh my gosh, like I've always had this question.

My family. My family does this, and I never knew why. And then we start introducing the financial literacy things as well, but always around this idea of how does it fit into your money plan, your goals for your life. And that's something that I just wasn't seeing in other curriculum that we're popping up.

[00:11:12] Naseema McElroy: Yeah, I love the practical applications of it. Like how does it actually apply? Because I think like the only money conversation I remember having in like high school was like how to balance a checkbook, which I was just like, okay, this is great, but I don't have a checkbook. And I, and then like, I don't even use a checkbook now.

Mm-hmm. . It's just like, so what is the real practical application in my life? And it didn't really teach me. About making good financial decisions. And so like, it would've been great to have curriculum around paying for your education. Not like, just like, oh, well just do it by any means necessary, which is kind of what I was taught like how to make smarter decisions financially and how that'll impact you in the future.

If you take out $200,000 in student loans, how will you be living , you know, and what are the alternatives and. Even like an approach to, you know, I end up ultimately after two master's degrees being a registered nurse, which I make the same amount of money as, you know, someone who's a diploma prepared or a JC prepared nurse.

And just kind of looking at those options and understanding what. The financial impacts of that was opportunity cost. All of those things, I think are really good to teach. I mean, the financial literacy is important, but if it doesn't have a practical application, it tends to kind of, for lack of better words, like fall on deaf ears.

So I really like that approach. I'm actually impressed that you even had something in place when you went there, because I know. , their financial education still across the board in educational settings, public and private are lacking. And so I'm actually impressed that it was there. Regardless of , you know, the curriculum because, you know, there are some limitations, but I think like with any curriculum, you know, you can't be dogmatic.

So it's kind of hard to develop curriculum that can. Implemented on a national scale. So I do, you know, give credit where credit is due, but I like that you ha you took that and kind of made it into something that would be. , you know, more applicable to the students' lives. And so I like that approach, but I actually wanna take a step back and kind of understand like how you got to the place where on your journey to the, to like discovering like financial independence and like what brought you personally into this space?

[00:13:48] Rob Phelan: My wife very reluctantly as well. We met when I was in, let's see, I was just finishing my undergrad degree in Ireland and I had been coaching soccer over here in the summers and we met in Maryland on just a total random occurrence meeting and ended up exchanging phone numbers, kept, you know, texting and contact and did very long distance for quite a while.

I was in Boston first and then up in Rochester, New York while she was in Maryland, and eventually we did get to move in together, I think two and a half, almost three years after we first. . And once we did, it became very apparent that she knew a lot more about money than I did particularly how it works here in the US compared to Ireland where I had grown up and.

Rather than staying in that dynamic, which I think a lot of couples do. You have a money person and then you have a person who it specializes in other areas. She said to me like, I, I don't feel comfortable being the person who makes all the money decisions for our household, and I would love for you to learn more about this so we can make decisions together.

Which I think was really huge for her to do that because I think if you very easily could stay in control of the money, and really if you're in control of the money, you're in a very powerful position in a relat. So that was huge for us. And then at the same time, like almost the exact same time, my school had someone retire out of a position who was teaching this financial math class, and they were looking for someone to do it.

And my principal at the time was like, Hey, you're new here. You get the short end of the stick and you get to teach this class. And I'm like, cool, that's fine. I would love to do it. I'd love to learn more about money as well. So between those two, I started on a journey. Podcasts. I taught a financial Peace University class from Dave Ramsey so I could get the class for free.

Read a lot of books. Very quickly, you know, got us, we got out of debt. We didn't have a ton, thank goodness, but we did get out of debt as fast as we could. And then we started seeing like what was next. And that's when I think a lot of people graduated from Dave Ramsey. Like, I want something more. And financial independence was, I think, a word that I found in a podcast.

And I found like the Choose AFI podcast, which I think really resonated with me. I loved their voices, I loved their message, I loved how they were approaching it. Cuz you had one who was already financial independent and then you had another who was just starting the journey himself and you kind of got to learn alongside them through their guest speakers, which I, I enjoyed quite a bit.

And that's when I started teaching it too. And I'm like, okay, this isn't just about getting out of debt or baby steps. Like, it's about all the stuff that comes afterwards. And that financial is about enjoying the journey along the way. I just, I was on fire. Like I , literally I felt the fire movement. My wife looked at me like, you're a little nuts.

You're a little into this too much. But she's like, cool, if you really wanna take over this money thing, like I know enough to know what's going on. You know, I can support you in what you're doing here, but you have fun with this hobby of yours and it just hasn't gone away since. ,

[00:16:32] Naseema McElroy: but when you say you were on fire, you really were on fire, I really feel like you dived in kind of like head first and mm-hmm.

I feel like you really drove that piece in the like choose fi community and the financial independence community of you know, how are we gonna teach the next generation? And so I know you're very, you had a big role in the Choose Fi Foundation and in putting together curriculum around financial literacy and education for kids.

And so like when you, when you. Took this on. I really feel like you really just dove in. And I saw it. I was like, ok, Rob .

[00:17:16] Rob Phelan: That was before kids, right?

[00:17:22] Naseema McElroy: But like I really appreciated like. how much you have contributed to the movement in itself, and it hasn't gone on scene, so I just wanted to give you your props on that, you know, but yeah, I think it's important, and you, and you touched on a lot of things and in explaining your journey about, you know, the power dynamics in a relationship where only one person.

Is in charge of the money and it, and it is an uncomfortable thing, but I do see a lot of people relinquish that power because they think finances are too hard or they're not good at it, or they're scared of making mistakes. But I think. The key thing to any kind of change is educating yourself and kind of just understanding you know, what's going on.

And , I would never advocate someone, turn a blind eye or turn full control over to another person. I think it's. Super important to be on the same page financially in any kind of situation where you're sharing space or finances or someone that you have kids with in our relationship with, I really feel like those conversations are super important because I have seen and know that, you know, when you're working together as a team, the things that you can do, Together are exponentially better.

And just like, it kind of levels the playing field. And I really feel like in a situation where a lot of couples break up because of, you know, financial worries or infidelity or woes or just whatever, financial transparency and conversations and kind of being on the same page financially is super important.

And so , I'm glad that your wife spoke up and was like, Hey, we gonna do this together, but, and then you just went all the way in on it. So I just, I love that, I love that. But many conversations are super important in any kind of relationship. So I'm glad that you brought that up. ,

[00:19:28] Rob Phelan: like you're, you're, we're not saying that you both need to be financial nerds and like, know everything there is to know, but you just need to know enough to be a part of the conversation and to be aware of, like say, do you know where all of your money is kept?

Like, what banks do you have? How many accounts are there? Do you have a rough idea? How much is in those accounts? , are you investing or not? If so, how is it happening? And just for that sake of if something ever did go wrong, like either death or divorce or something like that where you now have to take over and manage your own finances, can you do it?

And you talk about people breaking up. I also feel like there's the other side where people don't break up because they feel so handcuffed to their situation cause they have no clue what to do or they. Financial, it would be a financial disaster if they tried to separate and that's not fun either.

[00:20:15] Naseema McElroy: Yeah, I see that. Especially in a lot of de domestic violence situations, cuz usually that's where a lot of the power is held too. And so, yes, that is a hundred percent true. So to switch it up a little bit, I wanna talk about what you're doing for teachers now. I know you started a new program. Can you share with.

What you're doing.

[00:20:38] Rob Phelan: Sure. So teachers, as you may or may not know don't have the highest paying jobs in America, in the world, anywhere, really and. One of the limitations of it is that it doesn't really matter how creative industrious you are, it's very hard to increase your salary through any sort of merit based way.

It's more you put in your time and you get paid based on years of experience and the quality of what you put out doesn't really matter that much. You'll kind of get paid more each year just for being there for ticking off another year. That doesn't sit very well with me because I'm like, I want, I want to be rewarded for my ambition, and I want to have ambition.

I want to do these different things, and I didn't wanna leave teaching to go pursue that. I wanted to do it a different way, and I liked teaching. I love what I do, and I think I'm good at what I do. But I needed some other way to raise my income. That was part of the financial independence equation was higher income, lower expenses, invest the difference better, and have a great time along the way.

And for my wife and I, were like, okay, we can't necessarily raise our incomes through our traditional jobs very well. What else can we do? And that's when I started doing side hustles. And I love side hustles. I've tried so many different ones. And my latest one, Which I'm sticking with now for quite a while because I'm seeing the, the traction that you look for in a side business, something that it looks like it's growing and you can see that growth, you can feel it and you know this is the one that you should be putting more of your energy into.

And you try a couple things out until you find that. This one's called a teacher's Pay Teachers store. So I create digital resources for other educators to help them teach students about money. Rather than doing like an entire curriculum, I really try and focus on doing small games, activities, things that are going to jazz up a lesson in a way that kids are gonna walk out and be like, man, that was so much fun.

I enjoyed that. I learned so much from it. And you're always looking for that exchange of value with teachers. So unfortunately, A lot of teachers are putting their own money into this, and not school money, but it's getting better and you have to create an exchange of value where teacher's like, yes, it is worth me saving hours of my own time, creating something really fun to just get this turnkey lesson from Rob for.

Five bucks or whatever it is. And that's, that's going really well for me. I think I'm creating things that teachers are enjoying using. It's helping classrooms across the country, and I'm seeing the growth that I really wanna see in my business side of it.

[00:22:58] Naseema McElroy: Is that a, like a Etsy store, or how do teachers access it?

[00:23:01] Rob Phelan: Very similar to an idea like Etsy or Amazon. Teachers pay teachers in a market. So anyone can set up a shop on this marketplace and sell your resources or buy them. So if you're looking to buy resources for resources from me my store is called fi, educator Fi, and then educator. So if you search for that, you'll see all my resources pop up.

And there's tons of stuff out there for every subject that you can think of. So if you are a teacher or you are a homeschool parent, or you want to just find something to kind of maybe help your kid learn a particular topic at home, you can log onto the site, whether you're a teacher or not. Create a profile and find resources that align with what you're trying to do.

You'll find a lot of them on Pinterest, you know, links from Pinterest to teachers Pay teachers. You'll sometimes see them cross posted on other places like out school or Etsy, but this is probably the main hub. educational material like this?

[00:23:48] Naseema McElroy: Well, I like that it's not just for teachers exclusively.

Mm-hmm. , like as a parent that. would love to supplement my kids' education. I find that it's a great resource that that's a great resource that I can access too. So it's the site is teachers pay teachers.com? Yep. Yeah. Got it. And for teachers, That want to post on the marketplace? They just set up an account there and just start posting digital resources or is there a vetting process?

How does that work?

[00:24:20] Rob Phelan: No, it's you just start, so if you have created stuff for your own classroom that you're like, maybe other, other teachers would enjoy using this, you can create a profile for free. You can post things for free. There's no fee to post something unlike Etsy where you have a fee for everything you post, and the marketplace takes a percentage of your sale.

So that's how they make money. So it's one of those ones where they make money when you make money, and there's no real risk to them. So they're just like, yep, come on in. Set up a store if you wanna pay a fee each year. So like a $62 fee. You can keep a higher percentage of what you make in each sale. So after you see like, okay, you know, I've tried this out, I like this, I wanna keep selling, then you might consider paying the fee and upgrading your account.

For me, like it's a, it's a no-brainer to do that. I make enough on it that I more than cover the fee based on that extra percentage that I get to keep. So it's, it's a very, , good deal. I think in my end, to have the marketplace that everyone is going to, rather than trying to create my own website and then drive everyone to that website.

[00:25:17] Naseema McElroy: And is it just like exclusive to like teachers? Because like I'm thinking about my friend Stephanie Beggs and she created all these like steady resources for nurses who are going through nursing school. Obvious. She, I think she does most of her stuff through Etsy, but would this be like something like a platform that would be accessible for people that sell like digital downloads for study tools, or is it just exclusive for teachers?

I

[00:25:43] Rob Phelan: think you could find it. You'll find less individuals on there looking for study tools. It's more educators that'll be on there. Yes. And their platform is set up for like, when you categorize what you're selling, that they, they look for existing categories in like the public education space. Got it. So you would put nursing probably under a career in technical education.

Mm-hmm. . So it, it would still exist. Cause I mean, there are high school programs for nursing. But whether it would sell or not, I don't know. I don't know if the buyer would find it. Cost nothing to try .

[00:26:12] Naseema McElroy: I was just thinking, I mean like it sounds like a cool platform and I think people can benefit from it, but I love the fact that unfortunately teachers do have to spend a lot of their own money, which kind of sucks cuz it's not like, Teachers get paid a lot of money, but I like that at least it's kept within the community and recycled within the community.

And also it can be a viable side hustle for teachers that are creative and like to build resources like this. And so I think that's an. Excellent opportunity for teachers to both access non-traditional curriculum and also for teachers to generate some extra revenue. So I, I love that idea and I love that it's a side hustle that has taken off for you because it's just, it's innovative and it's great and it's so necessary.

[00:27:02] Rob Phelan: And we ta we talked about like trying to win our time back a little bit. Yeah. And this is one of those sources of income. Is almost passive. So when you talk about your sources of income, you have active income where you are actively trading your time for money, passive income, the. Most glorified version of passive income is you do nothing and you somehow make lots of money, which doesn't really exist.

There aren't very many examples where that happens. Usually you have to put some amount of effort in upfront, usually, and then it starts paying your, paying you back over time with less effort in the future. So this is an example where I put a lot of time and effort into creating these resources, but then once they're up there, their digital download.

So someone clicks by it, sends it directly to them automatically. There's nothing I have to do on my end. There's no packing, no shipping, no order fulfillment, nothing like that, and stuff that I've made. Three years ago is still selling today. So you'll hear a lot of that online courses um, YouTube channels, TikTok, affiliate marketing you creating a podcast like this might be another one.

If there was any sort of affiliate link built into it or someone was paying you for advertising to be on it. Like those are great streams of incomes. Try and create, especially if you want to try and save yourself time in the future. So I've like put aside a lot of the things I was doing that was a bit more.

And I'm trying to say like, okay, I have a three year old at home. I wanna win back more of my time without dropping income whenever possible. So let me do this thing where I can put time in whenever it's available and then reap the rewards all the time. .

[00:28:30] Naseema McElroy: And speaking of buying your time back and spending time with your son mm-hmm.

what where are you and your wife now kind of on your financial independence journey? Do you foresee staying in teaching until traditional retirement age, or are you more like on the fi side where you're looking to kind of pivot earlier, make work optional. As soon as.

[00:28:58] Rob Phelan: Um, This is where my wife and I differ a little bit.

I'm on the like so far fi side that I want to like go live in Portugal or somewhere with a super low cost of living and retire as soon as possible. Yes, she's less on board with that. She's like more into the family and being close by and, you know, living in the us which I'm like, okay, we can do that.

That's no problem. , the benefits of a full-time job are the benefits a lot of times, and that's a hard thing sometimes to replicate when you do eventually retire. Especially if you're not traditional retirement agent, you can't take care, take advantage of the government programs. So in our case, we have some chronic health conditions in our family that do require a lot of attention and would.

Costs a lot if you were to pay out of pocket for them. So a benefited job is something that's very important to us. And my wife works for herself as a therapist right now, so she does not have a benefited position. So we are using my benefits. Mm-hmm. . So the plan right now is to eventually go halftime as a teacher, which still has full benefits.

Hmm. And I enjoy teaching as long as I still enjoy teaching. I think we'll continue to do that and, . Yeah. There ever comes a day where I'm like, no, I don't, I don't really want to do this anymore. We'll explore, you know, the private health insurance market and see can we find something that works or maybe a different job that has benefits that I don't really care what they pay me as long as there's a benefit attached to it that I don't have to worry about trying to cash flow, unexpected medical expenses.

Like that's really what it is. It's just like we don't wanna have to deal with the unexpected medical expenses as opposed to what we do know is coming and the predictable copays that sort of. ,

[00:30:23] Naseema McElroy: is there a way to kind of be in the middle where as a teacher you, you, you kind of have a structure where, you know, you have summers off or mm-hmm.

if you're teaching part-time, maybe you can teach half a year and then not teach the other half of the year and then be in Portugal for half, half the time, and then be here, you know, the other half of the time. Because as important as family is, I mean, you don't have to be. All the time to reap the benefits.

And so I'm just like, man, I think teachers are kind of like nurses where they can kind of craft their schedule a little bit differently so that they can make that possible. But I'm like looking at like kind of like a halfway thing where you teach, you still get your benefits, you do all that. Then the other half of the year you be in Portugal, you might pick up some remote classes or something.

Mm-hmm. if you want to or not do anything but still have the benefits. Oh yeah.

[00:31:14] Rob Phelan: We're, we're looking at all those different things. Yes. .

[00:31:17] Naseema McElroy: And that's the beauty of, of, of financial independence. Right. It's still, it is the options that you have. And it's like kind of cra like thinking about. Your life first and then kind of fitting, seeing how your career fits into it.

And that was like one of the major shifts for me is that you know, when you're taught, like go to school, be, get the best grades, get that job, stay at that job forever and retire. , it shifts like, like your life around a career versus picking a career that's gonna support the lifestyle that you really, really want.

And that was like the biggest eye-opener for me when I, when I experienced a financial independence community. So, you know, I think it's exciting to be able to have those options. And I don't know. I, I see, I see this going so many different great ways for you guys. Even if you aren't on the exact same page, I feel like there's a lot of middle ground in there, which you guys can reach.

So I'm excited to see, oh,

[00:32:22] Rob Phelan: lots of travel is in our future. We love, we both love to travel. It's just the living abroad for very long periods of time would be where we differ. So, some slow travel trips. Lots of trips. I mean, like you said, teachers. Time. Like that's one of the things we do have, we do have time, and you have to be very protective of that time As a teacher.

You can find it sucked up very fast if you let it. But you can choose to spend the time whatever way you want and like I know that. , we're on a good path. When I actually had a job offer recently that I think would've been given to me if I had said yes, and it would've doubled my salary, but I would've been working the full year and from like seven to five instead of seven 30 to two 30, and it wasn't enough for me to be like, yeah, I'm, I'm not gonna do that.

Like I. I value my time too much now, and it's, it's getting to the point where I don't know if there's a dollar amount you could put on it that would make me give up that time. Yeah. And that, that's the power of financial independence to me, is that I don't feel that pressure, which I think is such a privileged position to be in.

, that's, it's not about the money anymore. It's about har, it's about bigger things, and it slows our path down to financial independence, probably. Yes. But does it make that journey more fun along the way? I think so, and

[00:33:32] Naseema McElroy: I think a lot of people misconstrue like financial independence as like, especially in the community where you see people like reaching it so fast.

It's like, it's not a, it's not a race really. It's about how you. Your money and your goals to align with your life and you have a really young son and being able to only have to work from seven to two. Mm-hmm. is amazing because it aligns with his schedule and so you spend so much time with your, your, with your son and I love that and it is a privilege cuz so many people, don't have access to being able to do that.

[00:34:11] Rob Phelan: I really appreciate that. I'm very grateful for it, and I think that's part of it's just recognize what you have and being grateful for too.

[00:34:16] Naseema McElroy: So anyway, I love what you're doing.

I love you being able to kind of like do the slow travel and choose like your career and a lot of people. You know, could never do that or take it for granted that that's something that's even possible for them to say. No , I, I don't have to give, hey, more hour. I don't have to take this job where I'm working more hours.

I'd rather not and spend time right now. You know, and what's important to me and, and I know that's raising your son. So I really, really love that. Always, always, always, always a pleasure catching up with you because I just love your energy. You're such a great person. And again, like the contributions that you have made to the community are, you know, monumentous.

And so I just wanna give you your flowers while you're alive. , .

[00:35:11] Rob Phelan: And I think, I think what you just said there is like, Like if you were to summarize this episode in one like minute, it's if we teach the younger generations how to manage what they have better, they will go forward in life not chasing the paycheck because they are very content with what they have.

They've created that space to allow them to choose whatever path they want, and they know how to manage and make due on what they. And that allows them to enjoy life to the fullest in whatever way they choose, and not because their costs of living are dictating that they need to make more money o over and over and over again.

[00:35:45] Naseema McElroy: Yes, yes, yes. And that is the hope. And, and, and, but I, but I'm seeing it. I'm seeing it. Mm-hmm. With this next generation people like even choosing not to work for periods of time, you know? And so I love that for this next generation. I love that these money conversations are being, are you, More readily talked about.

I just can't wait for our parents to get on board cuz it is Woo. It's a task. But anyways, Rob, let everybody know where they can find you, connect with you. .

[00:36:22] Rob Phelan: Absolutely. Thank you. Mm-hmm. , if you want to like, follow what I'm doing, I don't do a ton of social media anymore because it doesn't fit into my goal.

I've tried to cut back on it, but I do post occasionally on Instagram. You can look up at fi, educator fi and then educator. Same thing on Facebook, on Twitter, which I never use anymore. You can certainly go there if you want. . and if you are looking for something to use at home, maybe a fun game or activity or you're a teacher please do come check out my fire educator store on teachers, pay teachers.

I do have lots of free things if you wanna try stuff out as well as other ways to help save you time and money.

[00:36:55] Naseema McElroy: Thanks so much you, Rob. You're very welcome. Thank you for being here. Always so many gems and just, it's just a pleasure to talk to you.

[00:37:06] Rob Phelan: and yo. Thanks everyone. .

Hey there I’m Naseema

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