Is Financial Independence a White Privilege? Part 2 - Episode 28

Join us on a thought-provoking journey as we delve into the question: Is financial independence a white privilege? In this podcast, we aim to examine the complex interplay between race, socioeconomic status, and the pursuit of financial freedom. Hear an honest discussions, valuable insights, and a call to action as we uncover the truth about financial independence and its relationship to privilege. It's time to break down barriers and pave the way for a more equitable and inclusive financial future for everyone.

Check out Jeff’s Is Financial Indepence a White Privildege article.

About Our Guest: Jeff is a former Naval officer who lost everything in the 2008 market crash, the same year he was honorably discharged. After a couple years of scraping by and living on credit card advances, he landed a stable government job in 2010 and started to rebuild. 13 years later, he's approaching a net worth of $900,000 and his story can provide hope.

In Part 2 of this episode, we discuss the following:

• The concept of Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs and how it relates to the racial wealth gap and people's understanding of it.

• The disconnect between individuals who are at different levels of the hierarchy.

• The systemic barriers and historical experiences of marginalized communities, including issues with law enforcement and the healthcare system.

• How financial independence can be a means to overcome some of these challenges and advocate for change.

• Personal experiences as members of marginalized communities

• Importance of recognizing small, everyday actions in building wealth, understanding expenses, and addressing money traumas.

• Focus on intentional decision-making, decreasing expenses, and addressing personal triggers in order to accumulate assets and overcome financial barriers.
  
  

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TRANSCRIPT:

Jeff: [00:00:00] So one of the things that I kind of, cuz I spent a lot of time thinking about this paper, and then I was scared to hit the published button too. Cause I thought like everybody's gonna be coming at me from both sides. But when I wrote it, I really didn't want it to be just kind of like, all right, because my professor, he's black.

And so I didn't, I wasn't writing it just to say, okay, I'm going to I'm gonna get like a check in the box for everything that you expect me to say. I'm gonna actually look at this critically. And I don't just want to say, yes, the racial wealth gap exists and it's a problem. I wanted to understand why do people not see it and why is there a disconnect where people aren't kind of on the same page?

And aside from the self-serving bias that we mentioned I think that Maslow's hierarchy of needs plays into it because for people who aren't familiar do you wanna explain Naimo? What the, are you familiar with it?

Naseema: No, you can go ahead. I definitely have, but I'm not [00:01:00] prepared to

Right now.

Jeff: Masar, Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs. There's like the original one, there was like five levels. And let me see if, I think I still have it queued up here at the, it's a pyramid. And so at the base you've got your physiological needs, like just having housing, food, air. Then you go up one level to safety and then you go up to love and belonging, then esteem, feeling good about yourself.

And then self-actualization is at the very top of that pyramid. And you were saying earlier how some people are just scraping by just trying to make ends meet from month to month. That person who is just scraping by, they're at the base of Maslow's hierarchy. They're just in that physiological stage of I just need to have air, have Bree have have food, have water.

I need to have a place to live. That is what they're thinking about. They're not thinking about the self-actualization questions of what's my ideal career? Where's my ideal place where [00:02:00] I would wanna live and do geo arbitrage? And what would be my ideal savings rate? So then I can hit financial independence, in a timeline that inspires me.

Like those are high level questions that you need to have safety and security and to feel taken care of before you can even address those questions that are at the top of the pyramid. And so I think that. People who are not compassionate and understanding how hard the struggle is. I think that it's because they're already at that self-actualization peak of the pyramid, and they can't understand why somebody would just be spending money on lottery tickets when it's well, because they feel like they're not ever gonna make it to the top of the pyramid.

So a lottery ticket could be their way of actually striking it rich because they're not able to save enough to put toward a retirement account. So I think that is a big part of the disconnect is if two people are on different sides of the triangle of the hierarchy of needs, they're really speaking two different languages.[00:03:00]

Naseema: I think it's that, but then also, Like the way we're able to show up in life I think that there's certain things that we can easily take for granted. For example, like the police, right? If you call the police, you might feel very comfortable, right? If the police come to your door, you're probably gonna be like, Hey, what's going on?

What's that? If certain people call the police, it immediately triggers like a threat because, okay, are the police here to protect me or are they here to hurt me?

Jeff: Yeah.

Naseema: Which in my experience, is totally different. And so okay, like the thing, it's just the way that we can perceive, like we can't even get to that point of sex self actualization because the way that we experience things in life have.

Are set [00:04:00] up so that we're in a we're in a survival mode even when we are trying to achieve those things. So we, we are both USC graduates, we are both, we both don't come from the best neighborhoods, but

Jeff: six figure earners. We

Naseema: it it is

Jeff: But you, you're saying

Naseema: in California.

Jeff: those kind of fears of safety and security with law enforcement even after you've made it closer to the top of the pyramid.

Naseema: I mean,

and that's the whole thing. Like it's, it is not even just it's, it is those things. Like you,

first of all, I live on a street full of police officers and still they're not my neighbors. I'm gonna be like scared that I'm always gonna come from a defensive. Place when it comes to police instead of a protective place, and the interactions with the police for me are always gonna come from an [00:05:00] antagonistic, defending myself.

I'm wrong until I pay a million dollars to prove that I'm right. Right. As to where it's like you are like, these people are here to protect and serve. They work for me. It's totally different. So it's gonna affect the way that we move and interact, right?

Even my experience in healthcare, I'm a labor and delivery nurse.

I have, a master's degree in nursing. I am, I've been a nurse for 13 years, highly experienced in this area, but still, when I go, when I show up at a hospital,

If I don't control for every single person that I experience knowing who there are, who the doctors are, and their bias, I'm gonna be treated in a way that can kill me or my baby, period. [00:06:00] And it doesn't matter how much level of education, how enlightened I am, how much money I have in the bank, how well I know the system, how well I know my body. It's just the fact of the matter is so I'm saying like, yeah, hi, like Maslow's hierarchy of me does play a role, but certain people can't, even if they are at that level of self-actualization, they can't even access or experience life in the same way because they still have to think about safety and security because of just the way that society is still to this day set up.

I do understand that, and I do at the same time I'm thinking like, yeah, I don't understand why people will buy a lottery ticket. Are you and my coworkers all the time about that? But at the same time, I still understand that there are some things systemically. [00:07:00] That are barriers for us just because of, living in this country and just how it's been set up and ingrained year after year.

Even the medical system,

like the edical system was built off of experimenting with black bodies, with thinking that black people don't experience pain

Jeff: the Tuskegee

Naseema: We still have labs.

Jeff: Airman expert?

Naseema: No, that was just like one of millions of experience, like Henrietta lack, her cervical cells are still being used and experimented on.

The modern gynecological procedures were done on unconsenting slaves under no anesthesia that actually trained the doctors on how to do some of the surgical procedures. So it's deep. There's books and there's all kind of things that go through the history of the medical system and how how it's built off of like experimentation on black bodies.

My dad like doesn't, would never go to a hospital [00:08:00] because he was scared of being experimented on. That's how close it is in proximity.

And I'm, and I've experienced some things of, mistreatment of black bodies just being a Nerf. And so I'm just saying There is self-actualization, but there are actually some things where, you know, like sad to say, like they are set up for us to fail, and if we don't recognize and understand those things, not saying that means that we can't attain them, but we have to understand that these things are in place in order to address them, hit them head on, and then knowing that, using that information, what can that help us do in order to achieve where we need to be financially?

For me, financial independence is the thing that helped me overcome that because now I can advocate for those patients that are mistreated and I don't have to worry about losing my job. I've been fired from a job for [00:09:00] advocating for black patients and black bodies and being able to be like, guess what?

That's still not gonna hold me back. I understand the issues, but because I'm at this level of financial security, I'll be just fine. And not only that, I can use this message to further get this information out there so that people understand that this is happening and can advocate for themselves. So for me it's not about oh, there's this mentality like, I can't make it because you are holding me back. There are things that are still holding me back, but what are you going to do to address it? And to me that's to obtain financial independence and to work towards that goal of financial freedom.

And, but it's in spite of all of those things that I still have to go through and overcome.

So,

Jeff: And I think I can really empathize because. The [00:10:00] be my being gay and being a minority, and also it being legal for so long to discriminate and fire somebody for being gay. And even though that we have some protections now, there's some people in politics who want to kind of strip away those rights and make it okay to fire somebody for any reason, which could be because they don't like that they have a gay employee.

Like I, I can really empathize and I think I feel this sense of comradery with those struggles that you've talked about. So I, I consider I'm grateful that I've had those hardships that I can, recognize hardships other people have gone through. And and so I just, I would love to hear a little bit from you about how you would attribute your.

Family and your generational wealth, how you've been able to overcome the odds. Cuz the one thing that I did mention in my blog post that I feel like really helped me was my military [00:11:00] privilege. Because, luckily when I got out GI Bill and the VA loan I think that was available to everybody.

But I didn't realize it wasn't always available to everybody. As of today, if somebody wants to really improve their situation they can join the military, they can move to anywhere that they want, they can travel the world. If I had not joined the military, I probably would've gone to college that was close to home.

I would still be living in Illinois. I wouldn't be doing a job that I loved. I would not be getting paid as much. I, if I bought a house, it would've been a very modest house. But, being able to afford a rental property and then by a primary residence in a high cost of living area like San Diego, that helped me generate enough equity as the housing market went up.

That, like I mentioned, is half of my net worth. And I. Even though there have been systemic and there still are systemic things that are keeping people from getting approved for the lowest interest loans and everything [00:12:00] I really want people to recognize that there are opportunities out there and the one that I hope people do take advantage of if they want to better themselves and they're a young person, is like the military is, has so many great opportunities.

So I just have to put that out there because I hated serving in the military because it was during don't ask, don't tell, and the job wasn't fun, but like the benefits afterwards were just made it all worth it. And if somebody really wants that, if they're hungry to improve their life and their future generations, their lives, I think that's a great opportunity that is available to everybody.

I.

Naseema: Yeah, I think that's I think that's one way.

I think what is missing for a lot of people is that they don't understand that there are some things that they can change right now and what they're doing that can totally shift their ability to build wealth.[00:13:00]  I think a lot of times people are looking for those, lottery wins or that one like big thing that can happen in their life that, that six figure job or whatever, like people aspire to I think that there's like things that we can start implementing in our lives every day. I mean, like where we're at right now that really can change. The way that we build wealth and start creating generational wealth and start passing that on so we can stop starting over from zero.

And I think like those little things in which I'll talk about are just so often overlooked because we underestimate those little things and how much they can compound. And I think for, I got this from choosing fi as well, it's like the aggregation of marginal gains. Those sta those things that you stack on top of each other that kind of help form these [00:14:00] habits and are like accumulate to make really big, make a really big impact in your life.

And I think we just don't often know what we can do and where we can start from because, we are looking for these big things to happen to us. And I think like understanding your expenses and we were talking about the latte factor earlier, but like understanding where your money is going just like every day.

Like how you're spending your money that you get no matter how much money you make. Like really having a firm understanding on how much money you make and then how you're spending that money and making intentional decisions to shape tho your spending habits in a way that is going to set you up to.

Move through those levels of paying off debt, getting beyond that survival mode, being able to invest and actually put your [00:15:00] money into positions where you can grow your wealth, decreasing your housing expenses, decreasing your living expenses until you get to a point where you know your assets are actually starting to accumulate.

I think that we undermine all of those things. We don't focus on those enough, and we always try to look for like the next best thing, the next best side hustle, the next best tool. And a lot of it is actually approaching and like really discovering like the traumas that you've had around money, what caused them in solving those problems and really getting to the core of that and addressing that.

I feel like, you can start understanding, okay, so these are my triggers. Now I can start understanding or planning around those things or making sure that this is part of my budget so I don't have to feel like I need to splurge because I [00:16:00] ran out of money at the end of the month and now I'm not meeting my financial goals.

So it's just so many levels. But I think that we, like I said, we underestimate the things we can do right now and put things off and try to look for and anticipate For those big things that are gonna set us up, just like lottery winners, just like you were talking about, those N F L athletes end up becoming bankrupt.

Just musicians, just like lottery winners. Anybody that ha comes upon a big chunk of bunny at once, it doesn't fix their mindset instantly just because you have access to money. It's a process. And a lot of people, unfortunately, underestimate how little shifts it, I mean, those little shifts that it takes to change that mindset and that processing in their day-to-day interactions in life.

So I think that's what people need to focus on. But if it's not something that has been [00:17:00] normalized for you or something that you see other people do, it's really hard. For you to conceptualize how you do that, and that's why it's important to surround yourself with people that you aspire to, listen to, podcasts, audiobooks, things like that.

Curate your social media so that these are the things that are presented to you on a

Jeff: Yeah I'm grateful that my stepdad, he planted those seeds of me seeing a role model that, I didn't get along with him growing up. He was very strict. And I was just glad when I finally was old enough to move out of the house. But, looking back, I realized, oh, he worked in law enforcement and he had side hustles all the time.

He had a vending machine business. And he had rental property and is he was always working multiple angles to have multiple streams of income. And so that was normalized for me. So when I got into my working years, I never took my W two salary as like, all [00:18:00] right, well this is all that I'm ever gonna get, and I just need to, if I'm not making enough money, I'm gonna, it's because, my boss isn't paying me enough.

I never kind of felt like I'm putting all of the pressure and all of the, I'm not getting, being all of the power to that employer. There are other options out there. I can get the side hustles, I can get the rental properties because I saw it modeled for me. So I am grateful for that.

Naseema: Yeah. Yeah, those models mean a lot. They mean a lot. So I really wanna just go back to the question like,

Is financial independence white privilege. And what do you think it's, or like, how would you answer that question if it was just like a yes or no

Jeff: I would say, yes it is, and that just because it is a white privilege, I don't want other people out there to [00:19:00] feel like it's not available to them. Don't cut yourself out of the race before you even get started.

Naseema: Yeah. I would say

Jeff: Oh, really?

Naseema: I would say no. I would say that financial independence has been set up and is easier to attain for some, a white person, but it is not. Just for white people is for everybody. But you have to understand that it is possible for you. And in order to understand that it's possible for you, you have to see it modeled for you.

And that's why it's important to know what's possible and to see examples of people that have achieved it. So for me, I'm surrounded by a whole bunch of black people that I've reached financial independence on so many different levels, but it's only because I started on my own financial journey that those things were modeled for me.

Right. And yeah, [00:20:00] like I like and I think that we're

Jeff: We are,

Naseema: thing in answering the question,

Jeff: yes, but, and you're saying no, but, and we're kind of seeing the other side

Naseema: but

Jeff: recognize, like if I grew up in Let's say poverty in West Virginia in a mining town like where everybody's scraping by, I could have been surrounded by all white people who were, hardly making any money to put food on the table.

And then my perspective would be very different. And I would say, well, because of what I grew up in, white privilege does not exist. And so because you grew up in a successful affluent, upbringing surrounded by black professionals, you said that you could see that white privilege does not exist because you saw examples of it around you.

So yeah, I think that is huge.

Naseema: Right. Right, right. And that's the whole thing. And that's, and I feel like a lot of that, if we remove those, like like the victimization, like you [00:21:00] were talking about, if we remove a lot of that and just really understand our personal responsibility around it, but also in understanding systemically the privileges that we have, I'll have certain privileges that you don't have.

The privileges that we have or the things that can potentially hold us back and integrate that as a way to build and learn, not as a way to say that we can't achieve these things. I think that's the difference in, normalizing it in my community and your community. It's just like doing it in spite of the privilege and in spite of the setbacks that you might

Jeff: Something that you just reminded me of is like I was able to remove myself from my community. Living in a suburb of East St. Louis. At age of 14 because I chose to go to a boarding school that was a math and science academy that [00:22:00] was like five hours away up near Chicago. And so I did not want to continue growing up and being in the school system of where I was born.

So I went to this more advanced math and science academy where I was surrounded by very different people. And then when I went to college, I knew I wanted to go to the West coast. So then I was surrounded by very different people in the west coast. I was in the military travel all over the world. I was exposed to so much more than just what I would've only seen and experienced if I stayed in my hometown.

And so it seems like that could be a big maybe key is if you're not seeing a lot of examples of wealth around you. Not only can you seek them out virtually through podcasts and blogs like you have, but maybe there's some opportunities where you can do some volunteering or kind of get involved with other communities where there is more wealth, and you can start seeing those other examples and start feeling the hope that it's possible for you to [00:23:00] achieve it too.

Naseema: Yeah, I really like that. I really like that. Like I'm always a proponent of saying, you know what, change your circle of influence. And I remember begging to go to boarding schools or a different kind of school like that just because, I just wanted to, you I really was like, I wanted that different experience.

So you can imagine like a girl from West Southland going into Ussc in the culture shock that I experienced going there. I was like, wow. Talk

Jeff: Did you join the sorority? That the Greek system is so strong there. If you're not in a frat or sorority, it seems like you know what's wrong with you. Why don't you, why don't you have a social life? Like I felt so much pressure to join a frat.

Naseema: You know what it is interesting is that it's a little bit different on the black side because there is like that Greek, like I [00:24:00] remember getting a video of Rush for Rush and like all these black fraternity, I mean white fraternities, sororities. I didn't even know they existed because I grew up watching like a different world and knowing all the black fraternities and sororities, and I didn't like when I saw like the white Greek influence and it was heavy, the row, everything at usc, I was like, wow, this is a whole nother world. So no, I didn't experience that because I was just so taken aback that world even exist.

I had no clue. I didn't even no lie, I did not know that there were like, I mean, I knew there were white fraternities and sororities, but I didn't know, like they were like that I knew about black fraternities and sororities. But no I did not be hungry cuz I didn't identify with either one of those on campus.

And I'm more, I'm a little different, but

Jeff: too. I only [00:25:00] did it for a year and I was like, I'm spending all this money for these dues and I'm not getting a real benefit out of it. Especially because I'm gay and I don't want to have to go to all these events where we're trying to like, court, other women from sororities and, but I still felt the pressure.

Naseema: I remember that. Then bringing the flowers and all it's like I, I did not know that stuff existed until I went to that school, and so I was just like, wow, like this is really like a different world. That is funny. But that speaks to two different experiences that we had in the same place because no, that was never gonna be part of my life because first of all, there's only one black person in those fraternities and sororities,

Jeff: have a quota. Oh, we already have the one, so we don't need you.

Naseema: Yeah.

Jeff: you for applying.

Naseema: And it wasn't about I just, I never, it would never be something that would beneficial for me cuz I don't ever think I would've belonged there. [00:26:00] But I did see the influence. And I did see how there was like that pressure to join from freshman year and I was like, oh my God, like this is serious.

But yeah, it wasn't, and USC at that time didn't have a very strong black sorority in fraternity presence. It kind of grew after a certain period of time. So I didn't have the other side where that I was more familiar with until like later on. And by that time I was already established enough. I was like, what do I need to be in this role?

I didn't need the socialization aspect of it or, the networking, professionalism aspect. I was already like working and had my career set. So it was a little different for me.

Jeff: I wanna leave your listeners with one nugget of something that I feel like has really helped me. Because,

going from not only zero, but like negative 10,000 and just 2010, 13 years ago, something that really helped [00:27:00] me keep my nose to the grindstone and maintain that hope as I kept working at my stable government job was I became a spreadsheet nerd.

Big time where like I would take, all right, how much am I saving every month? And then investing into index funds. Okay? Those index funds are gonna grow at 10%. Okay. Now let's say that I was to get a second job and then how much? And then when I saw like how much I could get from my housing allowance, being a full-time student at the same time, okay, well now that's $2,000 a month.

Okay, $2,000 a month, then that's this $24,000 a year. And then, multiply that compound it 10% every year. And I would just look at that and it gave me the ability to dream and to have hope

and to say, even though I lost everything and I'm starting at zero. I just need to stick this out. I need to not let lifestyle inflation take hold of me.

I'm gonna keep renting this bedroom out of a three bedroom [00:28:00] place and dealing with the issues with roommates and not having a full fridge and space to myself like, I'm going to suck it up because I really need to pull myself out of this. And I saw the value in every single opportunity. And knowing it's not just an opportunity of having extra money this week or this month, that spreadsheet helped me dream for the future of like, how much is this going to grow to?

In five years, 10 years. And so it's very slow getting it started that momentum. But now 13, almost 14 years later, I look at like how my overall portfolio between having real estate and investments, how, like I'll have months where my portfolio will grow, like between 30 and $50,000 in a month.

And I'm just like so amazed because I don't make that much money. Like I have a six figure income. But I think it's maybe around 4,000 after taxes and after maxing [00:29:00] out my retirement accounts. So like somebody who's bringing home $4,000 a month for me in just that span of 13 years now I see how my portfolio is working harder for me than I can work for myself and seeing how it's bringing in sometimes 10 times as much as what I can bring in from my take home pay of my active employment, my full-time job, like I am a believer and.

I would not have been a believer. I think if I hadn't used the spreadsheets to kind of project forward of what's possible if I just stay the course. If I find ways to save more, invest more, make more. If I hadn't seen that and had those different positive examples modeled for me I might have given up before I have even gotten to this chant this place in life.

Naseema: Yeah, and I think that's super important because a lot of times people are not willing to trade temporary [00:30:00] discomfort for long-term comfort or any kind of make those subtle changes that it takes, that'll take them out of their comfort zone for a short period of time. Like you said, 13 years is not a long time to, get to a place where you were at a negative net worth to almost Being a millionaire like that is not a lot.

And so like we are unwilling to make short-term sacrifices for the long-term gains and it's just listen, they're, you are gonna choose your discomfort basically.

Like

Jeff: your

Naseema: being broke and exactly like being broke is uncomfortable as heck for me. So I'd rather do those short term things that I know that might be uncomfortable initially, but is gonna set me up and my kids up for a lifetime of comfort.

But it's really hard to convince people to [00:31:00] do that. And so that's why I think it's important that we're sharing your story. And people can see like tangible examples of it happening in real life. So yeah, I just really appreciate you being here and, giving us hope and actually like discussing like these issues that we often overlook or don't talk about and being able to come at it from a different perspective and being willing to admit what you don't know, and.

Mia admitting what I don't know, so that we can come and learn from each other. And I, so I appreciate these open just transparent, like very vulnerable conversations because just, we don't know what we don't know sometimes, but opening up like and being able to have a safe space to talk about it can really change, somebody's financial trajectory.

So I just really appreciate being able to have this

Jeff: Likewise. Yeah. I adopt the same mindset [00:32:00] as you nasima, where like when I'm blogging or making an Instagram post, I'm not saying, Hey, I'm the expert. You should do what I'm doing. But it's more like I. This is what I'm learning along the way and come with me on my journey and let's learn together.

Naseema: Yeah.

Jeff: And I have to applaud you because a lot of people would say, well, I don't wanna have roommates and I don't wanna rent out a portion of my home to a short-term rental or medium-term rental.

And as far as I understand, you have travel nurses that will rent part of your home. You're willing to do that to hustle.

Naseema: I mean, first of all, I just think it just makes sense and it's not and that's the thing, like people will make excuses. Well, well, I'm a single woman and safety, and I have small kids. I have small kids. Nurses are hurt. First of all, they're all background checked, they're all screened. When they come here, they come to work and they need a place to stay.

So I always, and I just factor that into where I live. Like [00:33:00] I'm always gonna have an extra bedroom. First of all, I'm always gonna have a place that is gonna be 30% less than my income. And then on top of that, I'm gonna make sure that if I wanna generate extra income and decrease my housing costs even more, I'm gonna have a place where I can generate income from travel nurses that come out here from different areas.

And yeah, it is, to me it just makes sense. It just, it's just but I can see I get the feedback all the time, well, oh my God, that's so unsafe. Or, I can't imagine living and sharing my space with someone else. But these are the things that I said like some that may cause some kind of temporary discomfort.

And it's not because these nurses end up staying for a long time. They end up becoming part of my family. Like my kids love, like they run to the door when she comes home and greet her. Like I think that. People sell themselves short all too often. But anyway, I mean, that just [00:34:00] goes to show we have to kind of think about things a little bit differently than what mainstream society thinks, because mainstream society is about consumerism.

It's about being broke, it's about being dependent. It's about the struggle because capitalism, we always have to have those workers and we always have to have those people that are, serving the system. So it's not in the best interest for everybody to be knowledgeable about this stuff.

And so a lot of that stuff is

Jeff: Designer brands they're flashy and they're easy to kind of post. But then, having a freedom and having financial independence to make work optional, that's not something that is marketable in a capitalist society. So there's not gonna be a lot of businesses getting behind that and promoting that lifestyle.

That's why it's great that, people like you are out there, promoting that you can make work optional. You can have a reasonable debt to income ratio with your [00:35:00] housing and still look at having other levers to pull for extra income for medium term rentals. And, having the option to have extra income because those things are not gonna be readily promoted to us in our society.

Just like you said.

Naseema: Right, and so I just think like this conversation is just great for people to just really stop and explore their beliefs. And really just take a look at what kind of things they can be doing and learning to change their financial situations, but also can be used as like conversation pieces to understand things that they didn't understand or, be able to unlock some of the tools that you have been able to use to, gain your financial independence in such a short period of time.

But I, overall, it's just been a great conversation on so many different levels, just about the way that we learn about [00:36:00] and experience and continue to evolve on our journey to building wealth. And so I know people will find it valuable. Where can people follow you? Cause you have your own platform, your own high pass.

I just wanna know where people can

Jeff: Oh, thanks for asking. Yeah, I, I don't have a podcast because I know how much work that is.

So props, keeping that up. Uh, My

Naseema: I'm sorry.

Jeff: Homo Money, so that's www dot homo do money. And then my Instagram account is the same handle. It's at homo.money

Naseema: Why don't think you have a podcast anyway? Because you have your

Jeff: I've been on, I've been

Naseema: why.

Jeff: on like four or five different podcasts. Yeah.

Naseema: Okay. That's why. But anyway, Jeff, I just really wanna say thank you for coming on. I'm glad we can talk about this, like something I wanted to [00:37:00] talk about for a while because I think it's just so important to just flush out the conversation cuz it just needs to be had because, we come with our own different experiences with money even though we have so many similarities, which is like blowing my mind.

But our experiences with life and the way that we navigate with life is totally different, which affects the way that we navigate money. But so many gyms were dropped and I really appreciate you taking the time

Jeff: Thanks for having me. I look forward to seeing this get posted and I would love to see, comments down the road of people getting inspired and seeing that they're kind of seizing their destiny and not feeling like it's hopeless. I really would love that to be the outcome of this.

Naseema: Yes, me too. Me too. And thank you.

Hey there I’m Naseema

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