This Black Single Mom Reached FIRE In Her 40s Making Less Than Six Figures, Ep. 55
After overcoming poverty, divorce, and single motherhood, Jackie Cummings Koski still reached FIRE in her 40s, making less than six figures. She retired from her corporate job on December 6, 2019, decades before others told her she could, to follow her dream of creating a financial-literate society.
In 2015, her commitment to educating and empowering Americans in the area of personal finance earned the attention of our nation’s policymakers. She was officially recognized with a Congressional Commendation for her accomplishments and excellent work in the field of financial literacy from the U.S. House of Representatives. Jackie is a Certified Educator in Personal Finance (CEPF®), and author of the book, “Money Letters 2 my Daughter”
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Links mentioned:
Jacki’s MarketWatch “FIRE Starter” Video
EconoMe Talk- Unveiling my Real Numbers Behind “FIREing”
Book “Money Letters 2 My Daughter”
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TRANSCRIPT:
Naseema McElroy (00:00): Alright, Nurses in Fire I'm super juiced to have Jackie Cummings Koski here and she is the author of money letters to my daughter, but also just an amazing woman in that personal finance and fire space. And I have the honor to know her. I definitely appreciate you being on Jackie.
Jackie Cummings Koski (00:20): Hey, I'm glad to be on here to Ms. TikTok Queen.
Naseema McElroy (00:26): I fell off, but I gotta get back on, you know, dealing with this Corona and these two kids, thank you though, Jackie, that would do a disservice if I even tried to summarize your story. So I'll have you share your background and how you personally have achieved fire and were able to retire early. Like how did that start? And then what are some tools that helped you along your path?
Jackie Cummings Koski (00:50): My story kind of starts, you know, in a childhood. So I was raised by a single dad with six kids. Like I still don't even know how he did it, but I grew up really, really poor. You know, we were living not only paycheck to paycheck, but you know, we were on a free lunch program and it was really tough growing up. And we were like rural poverty. So when I got a little bit older and that was growing up and living like that, I just knew that I did not want to live like this when I got older and when I had kids. So I decided to go to college after high school. Now at this point, going back to my dad, when I was about 18 years old, it was about three months before I graduated from high school. He got cancer and he passed away.
Jackie Cummings Koski (01:28): So he never got to see all of this is going on, but a lot of his lessons, especially about debt and things like that stuck with me. So I'm appreciative that that's something that I was able to carry with me. So I went off to college, I got a good job. I got married when I was in my early twenties. And then I had my daughter shortly after that. She just start 25. So she is a grown woman now. But back then, you know, I'm working mom, I'm a wife and everything was great for about 10 years. And after 10 years of marriage, I got a divorce and obviously that was devastating. But I would say the things I learned during that divorce process, of course, emotionally, but also financially, that kind of put me on that path of making sure that I learned about personal finances and how to manage my money.
Jackie Cummings Koski (02:14): Right. And because all of a sudden, when I thought it was gonna be a shared journey with my husband turned out that I'm going to have to do this all on my own. I have a single mom, and that was very, very hard to do, but I started getting things on track. I would say about two years after the divorce that I really needed to settle my head and make sure that I was okay. And my daughter, and one of the first actionable things that I did is I joined an investment club because I started thinking about what things do I like to do. I was able to find his investment clubs started attending some of the meetings, minimum meeting before I ever joined. But I finally did. And what I loved about the investment club is that it was mostly about education. So I learned so much, I wasn't scared to start marketing more.
Jackie Cummings Koski (02:51): And that really gave me confidence to start really looking at my investments overall, not just what I was doing with the club. So one of the most valuable exercises I've ever done was to create a network statement. And for the longest, I never even knew what it was, but basically I took all of my assets, which were things like my 401k, my IRA, the money, I had an investment club. I added all of those assets together. And then I looked at any debt that I had and subtract it. So when I saw that I was in positive, not everybody is, but I've been still contributing to my 401k and stuff like that. And I really didn't know what I was doing. And so I was surprised that I was in the position that I was. And from then on out, I started updating this net worth chart every single month. So it was really fun to watch my investments and watch my debt go down. So after doing that, I started tracking it. This was far after my divorce, but at the point where I was comfortable enough to do this exercise and start tracking my net worth, I think that was like 2014, 2015 to 2013. Cause my daughter graduated from high school next 2013. Finally, I started putting it on paper and his net worth. And it grew from about, I think my first day it was right around $500,000 and it shocked me that I was
Naseema McElroy (04:03): Wow. Wow, that's crazy.
Jackie Cummings Koski (04:06): I think that's when I found a fire community and I really started getting things together and it grew to about 1.2 million, by the time I decided to retire. So I reached my FIE number, which is 25 times your expenses. I reached that at about eight 46 and then I decided to continue working a little bit longer. I just needed a little bit more of a cushion. And by the time I retired, I was December 6, 2019, I was 49. So that kind of takes me where we are today.
Naseema McElroy (04:32): One thing I wanted to rewind a little bit about when you were going through your divorce, you found some interesting things like interesting differences between what you had saved for retirement and what your husband has said. Can you talk about that? And then what do you think attributed to that? Yeah.
Jackie Cummings Koski (04:45): Part is actually a little bit embarrassing for me because when you get divorced basically, and really all the time, that money was all that we had. I mean, I was in my thirties and so was my husband. So we had built everything together during those 10 years and we really didn't have a whole lot. We didn't have a lot of equity in our home. The biggest assets we had was what we had in our retirement accounts. So not look at mine. I had $20,000 in my retirement account and I'm kind of in my mid thirties and I'm like, Hey, that's pretty good. Right? But my husband, he had $120,000 in his account. So they basically look at your assets, which again, the biggest part was these 401ks, put it in one pot and split down the middle. So I kept asking myself, how on earth did he get that much more than me?
Jackie Cummings Koski (05:27): Like our salaries? Wasn't a big difference. We got similar match. And I finally kind of uncovered a few things that would have contributed to it. He worked for a major national bank. This is kind of two thousand fourteen thousand five where the bank's not doing great when these weren't like, Hey, the majority was this large bank. And of course the banks were doing great until 2008. So that was a part of it. He had a hotline bank in there and he was just some other little things that contributed it. Wasn't really one thing. But as we were doing this, you know, most of my check was going into just a household thing, but it didn't really matter. Cause in my mind it was kind of from the same pot, but that was really a wake up moment for me. And I just told myself, I never wanted to be that financially vulnerable again. So that was probably one of the sparks that got me going as far as my, you know, getting my financial life together and trying to learn about some of these things. And I had just,
Naseema McElroy (06:15): Wow, that's crazy. Talk about a wake up call, but also along your journey, you are able to maximize something that first of all, most people don't really know about, but you are able to leverage this to the max. He's talking about how you use your HSA as an early retirement tool.
Jackie Cummings Koski (06:32): Made, just say stands for health savings account and my, the way I even learned about it and how it came on. My radar was through my employer. So this was back in about 2008. And when I saw this health savings account, initially, I thought it was the same as a flexible spending account where it goes away at the end of the year, if you don't use it. But when I saw that it wasn't use it or lose it and you can roll it over your after year, I was interested. And what really got me was the fact that I could invest the funds that were in there if I didn't use it. And going back to the investment cloud, to being more comfortable with investments, that's something that I knew would help my money grow. And on top of that, for me as a single mom,
Naseema McElroy (07:09): All you need is two people to be able to get,
Jackie Cummings Koski (07:12): To make the family contribution or the family max. And so like this year, I think it's like $7,100 and it's just adjusted for inflation. So I was putting in, you know, six, $7,000 every year and it was tax free. It was like better than an IRA or, or even a retirement account. So, you know, tax-free on the front end because I had my contributions come through. My payroll are taken out of my check. I didn't even have to pay like the social security and Medicare tax. So it was tax-free plus I didn't have to pay, you know, Medicare and social security out of there. And while it's growing, while it's invested, it's growing, growing, growing. And whenever you take it out, I don't pay any taxes. I'm like, that's like the ultimate, right? That is the ultimate. When I figured that out now there was that article by Mad Fientist. I had already started this before. I read that article. But reading that article by Mad Fientist talking about the health savings account, I think it's called like the ultimate retirement accounts, something like that, that really got my wheels turning. So the last time I looked at that account that he'll say savings account had grown to over $140,000. So it's not a drop in the bucket, right?
Naseema McElroy (08:09): So that's just by making sure that you max out the family contribution every year. And instead of pulling from that health savings account, when you had a health expense, you pay for those things out of pocket. And the way that you use it in early retirement is that when you have laying around, if you need to pay for something and you have like, Oh, I made a thousand dollars on this medical bill. Now I can cash that into the HSA. And now you can pull out that money. And that is that many it's tax and penalty free. Do you pay
Jackie Cummings Koski (08:35): Okay. Anything on itself? So the part about the receipts, that's something that I do get a lot of questions about now. I guess the key to that is that there was no time on it when you can reimburse yourself. So that's why you can hold on to those receipts as long as you want to. And I just keep my records digitally. I have a, I mean, I'm kind of low tech, so I just have a folder in my email and it's for health savings account. Now this is something where it's a good example that you got to know your superpower. So this worked for me because one, both me and my daughter were low consumers of health care. So I never had any really big deals that I had to, that I would have trouble paying out of pocket. I think the largest single deal I ever had to pay was like maybe $200 or $300.
Jackie Cummings Koski (09:08): So I constantly was able to, Hey, you know, whatever medical costs I had, I was easily able to pay that just out of pocket. And that was when me and my daughter, I certainly somebody, it could have happened like a big accident or, you know, catastrophic illness or something like that. But if it did, you know, I started growing this from like day one and it was invested. So I was okay with using that money if I need it to it's so happened that I did not, I held onto whatever receipts I had. They're in a folder where I can reimburse myself for that anytime. But honestly, during the 10 years that I did have that whole savings account, if I can't all those receipts, I probably wouldn't even come to $5,000. So it's really small for me. But that's, when again, you have to look at your situation and what really works for you. What can you really maximize based on your unique set of circumstances,
Naseema McElroy (09:50): Man, I wish I qualified for an HSA I went for a job for like three months where I qualify for an HSA. And then, Oh, the other thing to mention about the HSA is that your employer has to have a healthcare plan in order for you to qualify for one. So a lot of nurses, because I usually work for hospitals and healthcare systems where they provide like PPOs, are they things like that may or may not be eligible for it. But I did actually, like I said, I work at a hospital where I couldn't use a high deductible plan and I was able to benefit from HSA. So if you have an HSA, that is something that you definitely need to look into maximizing as opposed to using it, to pay for expenses right now, use it to leverage it in retirement. Especially if early retirement is wanting to go with what you should be.
Jackie Cummings Koski (10:29): Hey, you know what more and more employers are starting to offer it. Like I know Kaiser Permanente in particular, they started offering a high deductible plan with an HSA. So if your employer is not offering it now, they probably will because it's more cost effective for the employer and the employee. But unfortunately, a lot of the messaging coming from employers, some people don't trust their employer. So I had to do research on my own and obviously like in the military and you have Tri-Care, I mean, you can't get any better than that. You're not going to have, you know, you're not on a high deductible plan, so you weren't able to take advantage of an HSA. So he didn't have to be on a qualified high deductible health plan that is HSA eligible. And that was another set of circumstances that allowed me to even participate. I had an employer that,
Naseema McElroy (11:06): Yeah, I didn't know that about Kaiser cause that's when I worked for forever and that must be new.
Jackie Cummings Koski (11:10): They do now. And like I said, more employers will start to offer it, you know,
Naseema McElroy (11:16): Especially with healthcare costs going up.
Jackie Cummings Koski (11:19): That's the main reason these even were designed or started because of the rising cost of healthcare. And this was more of a bandaid than anything else, but you know, I was able to take advantage of it. So I did.
Naseema McElroy (11:30): Yeah. You work that. So what do you say? Like people are like, okay, she was hired. She typically could have retired at 49. I mean 46 by retiring at 49. Most people would automatically assume that you were making like multiple six figures a year. What was your salary during this whole journey? Okay.
Jackie Cummings Koski (11:46): Clear it wasn't six figures. I was making, let's go all the way back to when I first got divorced. So at the, that I was getting divorced, I was probably making around $50,000. And before that, obviously it was a lot less. Okay. When I looked at my salary, I went to the social media website and when I looked at what my salary was over the last 10 years, my average was about $80,000. Now I'm in sales. So some years were good, some years not so good. Over the last 10 years, I would say the low end was around 65 and a high end was around 95. And that's the range in which my salary ran. So I never made over six figures.
Naseema McElroy (12:23): Yeah. It's the reason why I like the mention that because I feel like that's the average American salary. And I feel like most people think that buyer is unattainable because usually the people who are representative of fire are, you know, these techie, you know, white men, but yeah, our goal that changed the face of FIRE.
Jackie Cummings Koski (12:44): So what was the goal? Did you ever think? You'd see two black women talking about fire, you know, one that's firmly on the plan and the other one at the time. So, you know, let's give ourselves some points for that, but you're right.
Naseema McElroy (12:53): Yes, definitely. I'm bigging that for that time. Did you like intentionally just say, I'm going to aggressively say 50 to 70% of my salary or however much you save or you just had a plan, you just save it and then, you know, it just fell into place. Like how meticulous were you about making sure you reach a certain savings, right. That we often hear in the community.
Jackie Cummings Koski (13:14): I backed into my, so I didn't, you know, I listened to a lot of the nerdy white guy, so they have a lot of great things to say, but also some of what they were saying just didn't apply to me. I was a black, single mom, so I'm not a two parent household, but two and a half kids. And I worked in the tech field, make $120,000 and right after college I go back to live with my parents so that I could say 70% of my income. So those things did not appy to me, but I didn't let it discouraged me. I just knew that I had to look at the problem slightly different and I had to figure out what my advantages were and what things would help me, you know, be able to retire early, even though I didn't have all of those things.
Jackie Cummings Koski (13:48): And all of those advantages that, you know, we hear a lot of people talking about. So like I said, I was obviously, I wasn't doing a very good job before I got divorced. And it was that it was that time in my life where I decided to turn it around and I still didn't really know what I was doing. I was doing a lot of flailing around and really I was feeling fear because wondering if me and my daughter going to be okay if I lost my job, you know, I would be thrown back into poverty. Like I grew up. So in my head I was running so far away from poverty. That's really what my motivation was. So I started, you know, maxing out my 401k cause I never wanted my 401k from, from what I saw when I got in the course where my husband wanted me.
Jackie Cummings Koski (14:25): I never wanted to revisit that moment again. So I started maxing out my 401k, I started maxing out my Roth IRA maxing out my health savings account. So I did that for five or six years before I realized that there was even such thing as a savings rate, right. I mean, me and my daughter was still living a good life. I do live in a low cost of living area, which to me is it's kind of a super power in itself because housing is so cheap. Gas is a little bit cheaper, all these things add up. So that was a in my column. So by the time I kind of sat down to figure out, okay, what is my savings? Right. I'm going to hit to back into it because I didn't really keep a budget. I was always really smart about my money and I never wanted to stand up any more than I needed to, but I really didn't have a line by line budget.
Jackie Cummings Koski (15:08): So I figured the best way to do it is to take the amount of money I was saving and investing. I said, subtract that from my gross income. And then I factored in taxes and it came to about 40 to 45%. So I never got to 70% savings rate ever, but even say then, you know, depending on where they live, you know, $80,000 salary could be really, really good. Or if you lived in like California, New York city, that's not so good and you can barely get back. But $80,000 was my number. I live comfortably off of roughly half of it. Yes. So I just backed into it.
Naseema McElroy (15:40): And it took you from start to finish. Like what year would you say you really got, like, you really started like being intentional about it without having to know that you were on a fire path, but what year was it that you can really say whether 2013?
Jackie Cummings Koski (15:52): I was a little more advanced in 2013. And I think I started hearing about by, around that time, say probably around 2008 when I joined the investment club was a time where I was really starting to, you know, wrap it up and, and it just makes such a difference once I was more conscious about where I was, because that helped me form my, I guess my goal and my visions of what I wanted to do after I retire or even just to see that it was possible to, um, to retire.
Naseema McElroy (16:18): Yeah. And so that was, you technically were able to retire in what?
Jackie Cummings Koski (16:24): seven or eight years and I'm just still shocked, but those were things that I just did, not a couple of things that did help me in again, that worked to my advantage is that, you know, my dad taught me that debt was not good. So even though I went to college, you know, I really, I didn't have any help with the college. I primarily had to work full time. So that took a toll on my grades. Eventually I was working full time and I did not get a student loan like my first three years. And I finally needed one of my last year and I just looked it up on a student loan or whatever Vicky, what you had in loans forever. So I didn't really remember what it was, but I was able to go back and see what $6,500 a student loan that I had. So that being student loans that was not at controlled, like it is now. So, um, so I look at that. So I had a little bit of student loans, but not that much. And a lot of that came from my dad because the first three years, I don't know if I didn't know that there was other things or if I just didn't want to do it, but that helped me that I didn't have a ton of debt to get over.
Jackie Cummings Koski (17:17): So that helped it also starting in 2008, you know, that was a market crash. So that was a really good time to start. But again, going back to this investment club where I increased my knowledge and my confidence in the stock market, I knew that when the market was down, that's actually a good time to invest. So I definitely give a lot of credit for what a stock market and a big bull run. It's been on it from 2008 to 2020. And so that has helped a lot. So all these little nuggets, they just add up.
Naseema McElroy (17:41): that's interesting that you actually started investing during that time because that's when most people were, especially if you're new to my thing was like, Oh my God, that's like a scary thing. I'm gonna put my money in the market. I'm going To lose my money and all this kind of stuff. But because not only did you just say that commit to investing, but you committed to educating yourself on it. You were able to use that. [inaudible] you were able to use that to your advantage in order to really, really reap the benefits of how strong the market has grown. I want to talk about your daughter, but if I don't talk about this and I'll forget, the market has crashed. And some people say like, you know, so much, some people say that the biggest fear they retire and then the market crashes.
Jackie Cummings Koski (18:21): And that's what happened to me. Yeah.
Naseema McElroy (18:25): You're your set. You worked out an extra year just to give yourself that extra cushy thinking that she was going to be all right. And then you retire and then the bottom of the market kind of falls out. So how did you, how are you dealing with that?
Jackie Cummings Koski (18:36): Okay. So literally the coronavirus crash is what I call. It happened about three months after advertising, right? Every time December and the severe bottom with this coronavirus in the stock market was like in March, like mid-March and it was scary that no matter what, okay. No matter how well I plan, it was a very scary thing. I have friends, I have family and nobody likes to see red in their account, but here's what I did. And this was extremely important was that knowing that I had a certain portion of my portfolio had a very short time horizon where I was going to have to start pulling off some funds. Right. So I made sure that I had at least three years worth of living expenses. And for me, that was about 40 to $45,000 a year, three years worth in cash or in bonds or something safe just out of the stock market and not subject to the volatility that you obviously could see that happens with the stock market.
Jackie Cummings Koski (19:24): So that's the only thing that really kept me sane. And I just remember it, you know, 2019 was a, an incredible year for the stock market. It was, if you had SMP 500, it was up 31%. So at January, I'm not kicking myself. I sent man market was up 31% and I had this money sitting on the line, but, you know, I knew that it was the right thing to do. And so when this crash happened in March, you know, I reminded myself like Jackie, okay, that's why you have this. You're supposed to always have whatever you need to live off of. That should not be in the market. So I'm good for at least three years, probably a little bit more just in cash where it has no ties to the stock market. That's the only thing that got
Naseema McElroy (20:01): Right. And I think what people need to understand about the stock market is, is that people can look at it like, Oh my God, Jackie just lost all her money in the stock market because it's in the stock market. But now Jackie didn't because Jackie still owns all of those shares of those companies that she bought. And when the stock market comes back up, she's going to be able to profit off of that in her money will go back to the levels that they were in January it's she has set herself up to be in a position where, you know, she had to pull out of that many instead of the reserve that she had, then that's when she would have lost money, per se. So like when people talk about losing money in the market, it's usually because they're operating out of a place of fear and they're buying high and selling really, really low. And that's the only time you can really lose. If you have a well structured retirement portfolio, even in the worst case scenario, which happened to Jackie, you will be fine. Yeah. And the thing is you
Jackie Cummings Koski (20:48): Have to really look at your time horizon. If you're looking to buy a house in three years and you need that money in three years, you shouldn't have it in the market. If this is for your long term retirement, and you're retiring in 10, 12, 15 years, and you can't take more risks because you have more time for it to recover. So make sure you're looking at the time horizon, because stocks do go down as we have all seen. So if you need that money right away, or you need it, you know, the next few years don't put it at risk, if you're going to need it. But if you have a long time horizon over the long haul, stocks will go up. But it goes like that. The zigzag in between
Naseema McElroy (21:18): That's your death, it's short and it can be scary, but knowledge is power. And the most important thing is we can have knowledge, but you are the author of many letters to my daughter. And I wanted to know, why did you think it was so important to teach your daughter financial literacy? Well,
Jackie Cummings Koski (21:31): You know, I learned so much from when I grew up being raised by a single dad and poverty did the best he could. I just learned so many things that I didn't want to get lost. And I was always a writer. You know, my field was journalism in college. My degree was in communications and it was specialized in journalism. So I was a writer. And so when I started wanting to share this information, my daughter was about 14 and your kids are young and they're not teenagers yet. But let me tell you, when they get to the, I know when they get to be teenagers, they will not want to listen to anything that you have to say. Okay. So I couldn't just sit down and talk to her about it. There was just no way I was, would be getting through it. So I figured, okay, I like writing it wasn't major.
Jackie Cummings Koski (22:15): So why don't I put all this in a book and I know how long it would take. Cause I was working full time. I was hustling. So I said, okay, if I start writing it now, I would like to have it done by the time she graduates from high school and this will be a gift to her for her high school graduation. So it took me about two and a half years to write this book. But it includes all those basic things that I learned through my journey that I've wished somebody would've told me. I wanted to kind of give her a little blueprint. What is that track when these personal finance things that unfortunately is not taught in schools many times, like there's only 21 States currently that require a personal finance course for graduation. It should be all 50. So no one that's not taught in school. I didn't learn it growing up. I didn't want my daughter to not know these things. If I learned them because we lost something new. What's the first thing we want to share it with our kids, share it with our loved ones. So that's what I was trying to do with this. But it was very much a personal endeavor. And if only one person we had the book and that was my daughter, I called it away.
Naseema McElroy (23:13): Yes. And not only has your book inspire your daughter, your daughter. Cause we now, you know, 20 year olds,
Jackie Cummings Koski (23:20): Now it does. But back then it didn't. So she's 25 now. So yeah, she, she picked up way more than I do.
Naseema McElroy (23:26): Nice. But now you also teach high school kids and young adults, personal finance, and that's one of your passions.
Jackie Cummings Koski (23:33): Yeah, I started doing that right after the boat, because again, it was a personal endeavor, but I was getting a lot of schools, teachers and different people kind of labeling me as an expert, which I really was wanting me to come in his face and I'm like, okay. I would really love to share this with every kid in America if I could. So I started really enjoying, going to these schools in the first schools that I went to was the school district that I graduated from. And I didn't know what at the time, but the school was a title one school. And that means that so many of the students are a certain percentage of the students are on public assistance as well, not the free lunch program. And so they were, you know, in rural America where I grew up, that's where I started.
Jackie Cummings Koski (24:09): And I knew that since my daughter was just a teenager, I knew how to connect with them. I knew how to make it fun. And I knew that we had to, you know, teach by just playing games and making it fun. So I started giving her my $2 bills because back in the day I would hold on to dollar bills no matter what. And that was the first way I started saving. So I collected these for 20 years and before I knew it, I had like 1800, $2. I'm like, what am I going to do? These $2 bills? I can't just spend them at the store because they need more to me than that. So I thought, what better way to share a little bit of knowledge, but these $2 bills. So all they had to do was ask a question. All they had was the answer question and they got their $2 deal.
Jackie Cummings Koski (24:45): And so I always made it fun. I would, I would teach about the stock market in a way that they could understand. I would start it off by saying, Oh, what are your shoes? Oh, they're Nike. What car did your mom drive today? Oh, she told before, you know, I would say, you know, where did you get your coffee from today, Starbucks? So they started recognizing these names and I said, guess what? These are all companies in the S&P 500. And if you invest in them, that's how your money grows. And so we would play this S&P 500 game and I would buy gift cards of S&P 500 company. So the most popular one that would, I would play a game and give them like the most popular one is DePaul Starbucks. And then I would have McDonald's. I would have all these different gift cards out, give away just, you know, out of my pocket, like really just hit the message home on the stock market. It's not such a big, ugly bear, you know, I would just make it fun. And so they knew me as a $2 bill lady and the lady that had the great gift cards, not someone that was teaching financially.
Naseema McElroy (25:38): That is so awesome. I can just imagine being in school and like learning about that. I just wish more of our kids were taught this. And like you said, this needs to be compulsory for graduation and not just like an hour, like little check the box, like those exit long things that you do when you leave school with a student mom, it has to be more in depth and more integrated into everyday life. So, Oh, so many great things. How many great things Jackie is that while we wrap up, I just want to talk about your personal experience as a black woman on the path of fire and now being financially independent, what obstacles have you had to overcome to get there that you feel like where you need to you being you?
Jackie Cummings Koski (26:15): It's so many things and, you know, for a long time, I really didn't feel like it was welcome for me to talk about how different my journey was. Again, I am a black, single mom in America, so I have had to overcome, you know, things that are systematic that just don't work to my advantage. I mean, there were plenty of times where, you know, I might be at a car lot or whatever, and somehow I get treated differently. And I just know that it's, you know, because of my race and there just so many little examples that I of just had to ignore and I still had to push forward. I don't have like all that wind at my back where my parents were helping me get through school, helping me get my first apartment. Like when I, when I got my first job out of college, again, my dad had passed away and I don't know if he would have been in a position to either help me at that point.
Jackie Cummings Koski (26:59): When my first job out of college, I had to move from South Carolina where I live too. Then I got a job at Walmart headquarters. So of course I couldn't turn that job down. So Walmart just gives you like a big you truck and you put the car on the back and you put the stuff in, in Indiana, new haul truck. I never driven a U haul truck before, but I had to do this by myself all the way to Arkansas. And I remember that day because it was raining and tears are rolling down my eyes because this is so freaking scary to me. I knew I kind of, with me, nobody was in a financial position to help me out would even go with me because then they would have to come back. So I didn't have, I have all this support. If anything, once I started doing okay, got a out and everything, I pretty much had to go back and help some of my family.
Jackie Cummings Koski (27:38): So the roles were reversed, you know, and I'm people on the fire community kudos to them, but they've had their family and this amazing support and sort of say, here, let me help you here. Let me help you there. And they're almost lifting you up, but for me, I didn't have that outlet. I kind of climbed out of it myself and then slow down, turn around and help my family and many other people that adds to extending your time. As far as, you know, the time it takes to get to a better place financially or even to reach fire. And so also when it comes to, you know, jobs and the weekend, African American women, they 38%, then what nails, like I said, I have a salary of $80,000. Well, if I was a white male with my salary, be, would it be 120? I don't know.
Jackie Cummings Koski (28:23): But I did start to question some of those things and you know, again, I just always felt like I just had to suck ot up. And so I did that, but I think about all the other African American women that are out there, all the other people that's having to, they shouldn't have to jump over all the same that I had to. So if I can do anything to help elevate black women, the black community, to know that fire, to try it and make things a little bit better to make this achievable, because there's a lot of times, a lot of debt from student loans that African Americans have way more student loan debt than their counterparts. So all these little things they add up and I hate to see someone discouraged saying, well, that's not like me. That's not like me. So they think Naseema, maybe you and I, like you said, the, a new face to say, you know, we had a lot of those same obstacles and it was freaking hard, but we want to do, we do want to try and make it better.
Jackie Cummings Koski (29:18): And, but we weren't no that hang in there and you can at least get on the path. You may not be fired. You may not be able to retire early. Not everybody is, but just tweaking your finances. It's just a little bit, it's very encouraging. And like I said, doing that net worth statement, the most powerful exercise I've ever done, even if you are in the red. And most of us probably will be when we start to do our net worth statement, but it's going to make such a difference and make you feel so good when you're to look back and see that you have made progress.
Naseema McElroy (29:44): Yeah. And just a reminder, like the average net worth for a black woman in America is $5. It's super loud. You know? So which means that a lot of us are in the red and I started in the red, I was in the red for a long time. So don't let that discourage you. Don't let that dissuade you from looking at your numbers. And I think what's important is that black women were taught to be strong and like, we can do it all. But when it comes to our money, there is this sort of like shame or just total, like disengagement with it that we have to overcome because we have a lot of barriers. I mean, like, I feel like systemically, we get denied from credit, easy term financing. I mean, I'm in a battle with my mortgage company right now because I really feel like they're playing a game.
Naseema McElroy (30:26): You know, if you don't know, if you don't know, then those little things add up, you can say that it's maybe enter the interest rate, then I'll be getting different than the next person. But that's an ant that I'm being held back and somebody else is getting the money easier and they're able to grow their wealth more. So all of those things accumulate, all those things. Really. If you don't know better, you don't know what to look out for. I know how to advocate for yourself in these spaces. I mean, that's what grows the wealth gap in the wealth gap in America is real and it's deep. So yes, I'm all about as changing the face. Yeah.
Jackie Cummings Koski (30:57): Well, and a number of that show all the time when I do presentations and I think they haven't updated this since 2016. So maybe they'll do another survey soon. But the average net worth of a white household in America is $171,000. And the average net worth of a black family in America is $17,000. So 10 times, 10 times. So yeah, we can funny. We're not going to close the gap overnight, but looking at all of these different pieces can help close the gap. I think part of that you'll agree with him is education. There's a lot of resources out there, but now there's so many faces and voices of color that you might be able to connect with a little bit better. Adley the messenger matters. So I know we are both out there trying to lift our voices, trying to say, Hey, this is doable.
Naseema McElroy (31:42): You can get on a path. You know, you can start looking at your finances and I'm all about removing the taboo, talking about money, because I feel like that's part of what keeps us down is that we don't talk about it. And when things are negative, we don't mind talking about it, but that's cool. But once you start educating yourself, it's going to be a little bit more of a driver to say, okay, I do want to go to about this. Or I learned about this, let me go tell somebody else. And that's, you know, I do that a lot with my daughter, all the people that I'm around when I'm going to stop. And the first thing I want to do is I want to teach it to somebody else that is progressing. I'm encouraged about the progress of diversity and the FIRE community. It's not just one type or one demographic. You see me and Naseema. We don't look like what you normally see in the FIRE community, But we're getting there.
Jackie Cummings Koski (32:21): Yes. And I really wish that your image and your voice and your story was more elevated because I think that it is totally like dynamic and be more people need to hear this. And I feel like out of voices are hoasted up a little bit more, and that's kind of speaks to a little bit of the racism in this country is because, and a lot times people just don't believe you, you know, like even when I share my story, people are just like, I don't believe you. This is that this is a hoax. And if it was somebody else,
Jackie Cummings Koski (32:46): Well do you do have a pretty amazing story in the same as though I'm barely believe it too, but kudos to you. And you know, I was like clapping over here, like, Oh, go girl. And I knew I had to meet this. I was glad that we got to meet earlier this year before I, you know, coronavirus hit.
Naseema McElroy (32:58): Right, right, right. But one of the thing is, I mean, yes, thank you, Jackie. It's kind of like click bait. I get it. But I felt like I would have to validate myself more than the next person. And I feel like your story isn't as elevated as it could be. And I feel like I feel a personal responsibility to make sure I get out there more. So, you know, I'm only trying to buy you ground no matter what.
Jackie Cummings Koski (33:21): Well, I'm riding for you. I believe we're in the same caravan. You know, we're all sort of the, I guess, proprietors, if you will, a changing the face of fire, we both love and live a great life. It doesn't even mean, you know, but you need to be a minimalist or a really frugal person. You just need to see what you're good at what advantages you have and what would work for you. I love the investing side that helped me more than anything, but I never really kept the budget. So the other pieces, maybe I wasn't so good with. And I had to definitely overcame some things that other people did, but I found a way and I never knew early on if I would be able to retire early. But I was just glad that I had gotten my finances together. And I knew where I was.
Naseema McElroy (33:57): Yeah. Well, I'm glad too. And I'm glad that you're so open and you share your story. You're not afraid to share your numbers. You're not afraid to talk about money and I'm so grateful for your commitment to give back. And, you know, I'm sure you were taught just like me, whenever we achieve something, we gotta reach back and give to other people. So yeah, I appreciate you doing that because I really look up to you. So I appreciate just what you're doing in general. And I appreciate you sharing your story with nurses on fire. And I know so many people will be inspired. So thank you so much, Jackie
Jackie Cummings Koski (34:24): Thinking the same and I got to thank all the nurses and you on the front line. I appreciate your sharing your platform. And we just got to do more of this.
Naseema McElroy (34:30): Yes, yes, definitely. Sharon is here. Yeah. Alright. Thanks Jackie. Nice to see mom.
Hey there I’m Naseema
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