This Nurse Found Financial Independence Looking for a Beans and Rice recipe - Ep. 32
What does financial freedom mean to you? Well to Desiree it means going to work knowing she has full freedom over her life, allowing her to speak up and advocate for patient safety. Desiree is a mother of 3 and an operating room RN. She hit her Financial independence number at the age of 47, and still works in the OR when it doesn’t interfere with time with family. At work, she preaches the gospel of financial independence and the importance of buying yourself out of wage slavery.
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TRANSCRIPT:
Naseema McElroy (04:23): All right. So, I am honored to be able to welcome Desiree to the Nurses on Fire community. Desiree is goals for me. She is a nurse that is out here living her best life while still actively working as an OR nurse. She has reached a point where her money, her investments are working harder for her than she works for her money so she does not have to work. So she is at the point where she is actually financially independent. She has reached FI and she no longer has to trade time for dollars but she still works. And so I am so honored to have you Desiree here with us in the Nurses on Fire community. I just want to dive into your story of becoming a nurse and how a nurse, just a regular OR nurse like you can achieve financial independence and what that means. So welcome so much.
Desiree (05:24): Thank you for having me.
Naseema McElroy (05:26): Yeah, thank you. So let's talk about your story of what inspired you to be a nurse.
Desiree (05:31): My grandmother always wanted to be a nurse but she married very, very young and she's in my basement right now. She moved in with me last year and she has a handicapped leg, so she never was able to work as a nurse and so I was going to be her little nurse. She always said when I was little and we volunteered with the QDF group, we'd go to nursing homes and to help out mostly veterans and do little parties and things. So I was in nursing homes around people at a very young age and I was always going to be a nurse. That's just how it was. I was going to be a nurse. I never thought about anything else. I had never thought about doing anything else and that's just what I was going to do. So I didn't get to for a long, long time. I went to school right after high
school and I was doing prerequisites and got pregnant with my oldest and so married again, also myself, and then the babies kept coming and didn't happen.
Desiree (06:29): I registered several times, moved to California, got a governor's scholarship. My school was paid for, my daycare was paid for, and three days before I was to start that program, I was told by my husband, we had to move. So it didn't happen for me and I gave him the boot. Years later, went to nursing school with college and here, I always worked in all that time though, I was working for a rescue mission, take care of mentally ill women, homeless families. I worked for a mental health facility where I took care of mentally ill adults and then mentally ill adults with medical problems as well. So, I was a registered counselor. I did that. I didn't go to school for that or anything except for the CNA stuff that I did, but I fell into it like it was through volunteer job. I was volunteering.
Desiree (07:25): They asked me by first, within two hours of me there volunteering if I work for them, and I'm like, I already said I do it for free, you know, but they're like, we got to pay you so you can pass drugs. I'm like, all right then. So finally got to go to school. But I had to go to nursing school kind of the hard way. I always had been poor and I always avoided credit because I knew credit was the ruin of a person, you know? And so I never had any debt or credit cards of any kind. And so I didn't want to borrow any money. And thankfully my marriage left me also destitute. So I had that opportunity for hardship of being a single mom, and that gave me a Pell grant. So I did not pay for my education except for one year. And so I had student loan about, I think it was $6,500 about for that year. That was it. That was the debt I graduated with.
Naseema McElroy (08:27): I love the way you spent that unfortunate event into something that made such an incredible career possible for you. And so when people can harp on the negativities in their lives...
Desiree (08:38): They're all opportunities. Every time you're kicked down, that just makes you stronger. And you have to look at it that way. Like, Oh, what a wonderful blessing this is. My daughter had cancer year and a half ago and she's an amazingly strong woman. That's my oldest. And that was like, but it was the best thing for her. And fortunately, she was also broke, completely broke and in nursing school and when she got cancer, because if she had graduated, had a job and had co-payments and medical bills and things like that, it would have crushed her. But nope, she was poor.
Naseema McElroy (09:16): It happened when it was supposed to happen, even though we don't like to look at things, say things like that. But yeah, like everything that happens in your life, good or bad is an opportunity. And it's really what your response to that is that matters. And then I want to just touch briefly on the fact that you knew that debt would be the ruin of you. Who taught you?
Desiree (09:37): I grew up on a farm and we didn't have any money and everybody were, but just, you know, not nothing that anybody went to school for jobs. We work jobs and we grew the food we ate. We had animals and things, but if you get debt, they're going to take your farm from you, then you're going to be homeless. And so I never wanted a credit card. In fact, I just got our first credit card, we were almost financially independent when I got my very first credit card. And, it was just that security of knowing that, well I'll just, I can pay it off every month because we use the rebates. But we had enough underneath us that I knew that there is, that wasn't going to be the ruin of us.
Naseema McElroy (10:19): That's so admirable. You know, that's just not common today. But I understand that and I respect that and I'm sure that that's something that you instill in your kids 'cause they've seen you go through so many levels of, you started from the bottom, now you hear like they've seen you on the come up. And so that builds so much resiliency in children. And I love that you learn that and that's something that they can see. So you started as a nurse in your thirties working. Were you always in the OR?
Desiree (10:48): Yes, I thought I was going to be geriatric or psychiatric. That's what I went in thinking. And I did a one day rotation in the operating room and I had no idea that that was even a thing. You know how you do those rotations in school and you go into nursing school thinking you're going to be one kind of nurse. But a different kind of nurse walks out and I told my clinical instructor, how do I get here? How can I be this person? And so she had been a former OR nurse and she encouraged me and helped me to get my preceptorship. And then that person's the charge nurse at that facility called the facility I work out now and said, you've got to hire her. And so they did. They gave me a residency and I went through their course and really enjoy it.
Naseema McElroy (11:36): It's all about those connections. I love it. So how did you as just a regular OR nurse find out about this world of financial independence?
Desiree (11:47): I've always been very frugal, but I wanted my beans and rice to taste better. I knew that out in the world there's beans and rice in different cultures all over the world.
Naseema McElroy (11:55): So. there are flavorful ones.
Desiree (11:57): Right. Yes. So I was looking for something a little different. I was searching for beans and rice and it led me to the Mr. Money Mustache webpage because somebody on one of the forums or something or comments had said something about eating beans and rice. And for some reason it [inaudible] enough that I ended up there. And so, I started reading from the beginning post, the first post for mrmoneymustache.com. And I was probably about a day or two into it, I did go ahead and make those beans and rice that night and they were delicious.
Desiree (12:33): But I kept reading and I started doing things and at that point I still had about $5,000 of my school loan 'cause I had just been making the minimum, we didn't have any other debt other than our mortgage payment. And I started doing things, hanging my laundry up to dry, you know, turning the thermostat down and then he kept going on and on about riding a bike to work. So I'm like, okay, I finally bit the bullet, I factored in exactly how much is it going to cost me and money's saved in car to ride my bike and make the bike pay for itself and then start making money. And my break even point was six months. So I got myself a bike and I started riding it to work and that went really well. I lost weight. I felt better. I hurt for a lot of weeks, but then I started feeling better and then I broke even and all of that gave my car away 'cause I was just riding my bike to work and my husband had his car.
Desiree (13:31): So if I needed a car, you know, grocery shopping and stuff and that went well and I just kept saving. I just kept not spending money. And then pretty soon I saw it piling up in my bank account because I wasn't spending it and I didn't know anything about investing then. I set my retirement fund. I think I remember that having a heart attack when I said it to 25% you know, we're gonna die, we're going to starve. This isn't going to be enough money. But it was fine. Didn't even notice it. So the money built up in my savings and my checking account and I just wrote a note, a thank you note on a thank you card to the loan people and sent the balance to them and we're done with that transaction. Felt great.
Naseema McElroy (14:15): So how far after finding Mr. Money Mustache, were you able to pay off your remainder of your loans?
Desiree (14:20): Within three months.
Desiree (14:22): So you like, listen, you found him and then you went hard. Like you weren't playing around.
Desiree (14:27): Well, I quit any money. A few years before my husband, I got married again to a wonderful man and my husband, I told him about it and he thought it was some wacky scheme I was into. And he laughed. And I mean, he doesn't do the laundry anyway, so he didn't care whether I hung the clothes or not, you know. But a few years before we'd been talking, when we did our taxes and we were both making a good amount of money, you know, here I was, that was probably about year three, four out of nursing score, maybe more. And, we're both making good money, but at the end of the year there is nothing left. And it wasn't like we were out partying or live a life, it was just we determined we're spending this money on the kids. That's what we're doing and it's nothing they need anyway. So we decided to prioritize us as grownups because by then they're teenagers, you know, they're nearly grown a except for the littlest. And so we started taking trips and it was great. We were having a good time where he's still spending all our money, but now it's a little more on us instead of just all their activities and stuff. And so we had already that kind of frame of mind. But after reading about, it kind of just changed my mind now, but what is money? What is it used for? And it became a tool and not just the thing you have. And once that light switch flipped, I just didn't want to spend money on anything unless I had to. My thermostat's at 63 right now cause that's our daytime temperature. At night, it's 55. I don't fool around. And so the moneys are piling up, you know, just start piling up and then I had to learn how to invest and so maxed out. Then I set my retirement account at 75% of front load at work and be flip front loads all.
Naseema McElroy (16:14): So let's stop there because we're just nurses, right? We're nurses, semi-OR nurse. Yes. And so you know, like when it comes to putting money into retirement, you know, it's like one of those things. Either we kind of do what our coworkers are doing or we kinda just do the minimum. Or some people are so nervous about investing, about putting in money in the stock market, they don't do anything. How did you at that point learn about investing?
Desiree (16:43): Well I read, I think it was at the Early Retirement Extreme guy. I forget his name. I think he has a thing on...
Naseema McElroy (16:50): Early Retirement Extreme. Like he has a blog.
Desiree (16:52): Yeah, he sold it and then he took it back. I don't know. He lived in that RV. I remember that, but he had a little kind of what I would tell my daughter thing on there about investing and also Mr. Money Mustache talks about index funds, but the main thing that I learned is how do you even pick a fund? Like I had no idea. I thought it was some sort of magic formula. You have to have a finance degree or something to understand it, but once I figured out, low fee, high yield, done, that's it. All you gotta pay attention to there. And so I switched, set my own account on my retirement fund at work and then started investing in after tax. But then I changed my thinking. It's not like I'm giving money away and it's not my money anymore. I'm kind of saving it from the man because the government can take it in taxes or I can put it in there. I'm going to put it there.
Naseema McElroy (17:46): I tell people that all the time. I said, listen, you're going to pay. You have two choices, you're going to pay the government or you're going to pay yourself. And 100% of the time, I'm going to choose myself. So what are you going to do?
Desiree (17:57): Right, exactly.
Naseema McElroy (17:58): So I love it. And then let's go back to talking about, you talked about like you front load all your retirement accounts. So what does that do for you?
Desiree (18:06): Well for me, I front load because for the past three years I told them at work, I am one vacation request denial away from going per diem. Y'all know that because I retired in my mind about four or five years ago where I was coming to work 'cause I wanted to come to work. And also, you know, I've got that whole RN and pulse thing going on so I know I can get shot anyway but I have it. I've stayed true to my company that I got hired from right out of nursing school. So I enjoy them. But, it finally happened. In June, I got notified that I would not get the day before Thanksgiving off and well they put me on an LC list but I'm not going to take a chance. That's pie day in my house. We make pies.
Naseema McElroy (18:51): That's right girl. Priorities. That's what's important to you.
Desiree (18:56): That's the thing. And I was already financially independent at that point, so it was just kind of the clock was ticking for them and so I put in my notice and I went per diem the week before Thanksgiving and I didn't work this week. I'm not working next week, but I think the next week after that I'm working a half, couple of half days.
Naseema McElroy (19:15): We like to call those princess shifts. [Desiree agrees] So how long after discovering Mr. Money Mustache in the world of FI did it take you to become financially independent? Like how many years was that?
Desiree (19:29): I had a big helping hand. My husband also, again, we're both adverse to debts and things like that. So that was good. Neither of us came in with, we had two paid off cars. They only thing that we had debt on is the house. And we were at $100,000 underwater at the time that I found Mr. Money Mustache because of the recession. But then now, let's see, I was fully FI this last summer. I knew that we could have coasted there for the last few years. You know, once we saw that snowball rolling, we knew that it would keep going and we just maybe needed to cover our own expenses and maybe not even save anymore and it would still happen. But so that gave me a lot of confidence in that in easily saying I take vacations, I take two weeks off at Christmas, so go ahead and stop me. And so this year it was just like basically I don't work this December. Sorry.
Naseema McElroy (20:24): So how many years from start to finish was that?
Desiree (20:27): Six, I guess.
Naseema McElroy (20:29): That's what I'm talking about.
Desiree (20:30): We were rocking that 65 to 80% savings rate, but we never felt deprived at all. Never was. I never didn't get to see or do or have something because I didn't have the money because my priorities changed. I didn't want that thing anymore.
Naseema McElroy (20:50): Exactly. You told freedom over with ever possession that money could buy.
Desiree (20:56): Because jacked up trucks are, that's gonna make you be a wage slave. You're just going to be a wage slave for what? A pair of shoes? You're going to give away your freedom for that. No way. Yeah.
Naseema McElroy (21:08): So what is keeping you being working as a nurse? Like why are you still working? You can totally live off of your money. Your money is working for you, like nothing else.
Desiree (21:18): I don't need to go to work at all. I don't need to make a single dime. I don't need to ever do make a single dime again for the rest of my life. It's all planned out. My husband and I just had our quarterly meeting the other day and he showed me the 4 year, 5 year, 10 year, 20 year, 30 or 40 year. I said, I don't think I'll be here already, but bye. [both laugh] I don't need to make money. I'm a nurse because that's who I am. It's not what I do. It's who I am. And I worked hard for that license, too. I worked hard for it. And so in the state that I'm in, you have to have a minimum number of hours that you are a practicing nurse in order to keep your license current. I bet it can be as easy as my grandma living down in the basement because I look after her now here, so I don't need to even go into like the paid job. But I go there because I'm a nurse and I love what I do. I get to speak my mind and I've been able to do that for years. I get to hit the big red stop button anytime I feel like something's not safe, there's no pressure of getting fired. There's no pressure of never working again or something like that. It doesn't matter to me. They can't take that away.
Naseema McElroy (22:30): I forgot to mention this earlier, but I love that your grandma's still living with you and that she's still alive and my grandfather is somebody that's super close to me and you know, I'm around the corner from him and that's like so cool for me, right? Like I'll trade anything for that. So, I love that. The other thing is that you mentioned that it's super important and this is something that I've had firsthand experience with, is being able to speak your mind and not be in fear of losing your income. I have been in a toxic work environment, very unsafe patient care, a lot of implicit biased, a lot of mortality and morbidity that could have been prevented just because of the way that the providers were thinking. And you know when you've seen it firsthand, but me being able to not only just walk away from that job because I had other choices and because I wasn't dependent on that, but also me being able to speak up and not be in fear that I would lose my income was monumental and that's something that a lot of people can't do. Can you talk to me about the power that you feel because you're able to do that?
Desiree (23:41): Well, if you're working for a doctor, then you're working for him and he kind of owns you. If you own a big house and a big truck and you've got credit card debt, you don't have that freedom to save a life by speaking up. And it's nice because everybody at work knows that I have that freedom. I own myself and so they come to me, I speak up if they can't, but it saves lives and you have to save a life. And then when you feel your pulse and you look online and see that you still have a nursing license, go ahead and speak up and save a life because what else are we there for? That's why we're there.
Naseema McElroy (24:22): We are patient advocates at the core, but I know a lot of nurses that are in fear of losing that income and so they won't necessarily speak up and that's about integrity. But it's also about survival. I mean like people are balancing those things and so if you make the choice to ensure that you're financially free, there's nothing holding you back for being that hundred percent nurse that we are all like in this career to do. Because a nurse is like, there's no other profession that I found really maybe teacher that like you're a teacher at the core, you're a nurse at the core and all you want to do is really serve your patients. But there are so many things that can get in the way of that. And a lot of the things are financially motivated. So once you take that barrier away...
Desiree (25:12): People are afraid. They're afraid to lose their house, they're afraid of not being able to feed their families. But when you take care of the money part of it, you don't have any fear of any of that. And you can just be free to be the strong advocates that we are all supposed to be.
Naseema McElroy (25:27): Yes. And that's why this platform exists. To let you guys know that it's possible because in this world we're inundated with all this negativity and we're inundated with the fact that we have to be consumers. And because we have these nice incomes and this flexibility in our work that we can just spend money like it's going out of style. But if we're not investing in ourselves, then we're not doing a disservice to our profession. We're doing a disservice to our profession, we're doing a disservice to ourselves. And so we need to know what's possible for us and know that at any given time, you can set yourself up in 10 years or less in most cases to be able to make work optional. But that doesn't mean that you have to walk away from your job.
Desiree (26:10): No, you don't have to walk away from being a nurse.
Naseema McElroy (26:13): Yes. That means that you get to come to your job fully as yourself because you are not bogged down by any kind of financial commitments that you feel obliged to. So, I mean, I love your story and I love that you preached the gospel and I love that you're there at your job because people are seeing what's possible through you. You're able to be an advocate for your coworkers as well because there's like no fear. I think that's great. So tell me what's next for you and your family?
Desiree (26:44): Well, I've got my grandma downstairs so I've been enjoying that for almost a year now. And then I have a five year old grandson with my oldest daughter and so I just told work I can only be available sometimes on Tuesdays and Fridays because the other days I take care of him. So my daughter doesn't have to pay for daycare and he and I get to hang out, you know, at least three days a week. And they usually, he throws the sleep over in there too. And so I really enjoy that. I like doing the simple things now, things that used to be chores but I like getting the dishes done and the kitchen's clean. Before it was just something I had to do. But now I'll knock it out of the way early 'cause I'm just going to sit around drinking tea and maybe watch some documentaries or read a book or take my grandson to the park or whatever it is that we're up to that day. I like spending hours drinking coffee in the morning, you know, just like it takes me now at least like two hours of drinking coffee before I'm ready to just do anything else.
Naseema McElroy (27:49): You're fully living in what brings you pleasure? I love it.
Desiree (27:53): I think I'm still in that decompression phase though because it's only been a few months now where I quit, but I'll go in every couple of times a month. So I think I'm still decompressing. I think I will probably spend a lot more time traveling and like to hike and go up in the mountains by myself. So, go up to my little shack in the woods and sharpens the maxes, you know?
Naseema McElroy (28:19): I love it. So now that you have your money just working for you hardcore, how does that look like as far as like what you do or teach your kids or how does that work for generational planning?
Desiree (28:33): Well, there's going to be a lot of money there. And once we got to that point where we knew that the snowball was just going to get bigger, we did all our estate planning so that we'd taken care of all of that. So the kids, and we were real open and transparent. All of our children are adults now. The youngest is 19. So we show it all to them. When I tell them, this is where important paperwork is, this is where the money is. So something happens to me and dad, you know, you guys need to, this is where you look for it, you know, so that beyond that they're all, I won't say how capable they are, aren't, but most of my children are very capable and so the youngest is very interested in early retirement and just early financial independence. And so, she has already saved money, purchased her own car with cash and is now saving up and is finishing up her program now that she's working on for school. And then she's already got recruiters talking to her so, so she'll do fine and my oldest will do great.
Naseema McElroy (29:41): Your oldest, what follows your footsteps and is a nurse?
Desiree (29:44): Yeah, she was supposed to be a doctor, but...
Naseema McElroy (29:47): She got smart. Right?
Desiree (29:49): She got a biology degree and had my grandson and then I decided maybe the lifestyle of a nurse is, she is like to have more children and be a moms. Our lifestyle is a little easier to do that than a physician's. Get more balance.
Naseema McElroy (30:03): Definitely. And Desiree , I love your story because it is truly like the rags to riches, like you've been through so much. I mean, you went through a horrible divorce and I've been there, too. You've had to start from nothing and claw your way out and you've been able to become financially independent in less than 10 years. And I know it was the support of your awesome husband and all that stuff that you have now, but at the end of the day you did it despite of, you know. [Desiree says "And it was fun."] Yeah. And you did not live in deprivation, but I mean, I don't see myself really riding a bike to work or I don't really want to dry, you know, hang my clothes. But those weren't things that you represented any kind of lack. Those were things that you actually enjoy.
Desiree (30:53): I got physical fitness and my sweater smell like sunshine. There's nothing wrong with that.
Naseema McElroy (30:59): Exactly. And so, I think a lot of people think it's just like how do you live like that? And to them I say, how do you not choose yourself?
Desiree (31:08): It's freedom sure is a lot better than anything.
Naseema McElroy (31:12): On so many levels. And if there was just one thing that you wanted a nurse to take away from this podcast today, what would it be?
Desiree (31:22): I think just to think about money as a tool 'cause that's what it is. It's not a thing. It's a tool and it's your time and money is time and max out your retirement fund. Why give the government your money? Start there and from there read some more, you know, learn some more, whatever interests you and keep growing and stepping forward.
Naseema McElroy (31:44): Yes. Listen to more podcasts like this. All those kinds of things to start surrounding yourself with people who are doing the things that you aspire to. Yeah. That's really awesome.
Desiree (31:56): We may seem weird now, but I feel like it is growing.
Naseema McElroy (31:59): This is my normal. So make a new normal and this make this year a new normal. So, Desiree, I loved talking to you. You are like true goals for me. You have to know how much I really look up to you. I'm right behind you, girl. I know, right? I'm right behind you. I'll be there shortly.
Desiree (32:20): Yes. Come on. The water's fun.
Naseema McElroy (32:23): Jump in. I am going to jump in. I mean, I'm there. I'm there.
Desiree (32:26): It takes bravery though. At the end, and I saw that with myself, especially in the last year is so hard to just like push back away from the table and say I'm full. I've had enough. You know? And it's, what are the next steps? Well, it doesn't really matter what the next steps are. Once you get here, you just don't have to think about or worry about things.
Naseema McElroy (32:47): Yeah. So what are some resources that you feel like people can utilize in order to learn? I know you're a true mustache-ian through and through.
Desiree (33:00): True mustache-ian. So start, go to mrmoneymustache.com. Start at the very first article and read your way up. The new stuff isn't gonna make any sense unless you start at the beginning and start trying things, start things that are comfortable at first and then keep moving into areas that are less comfortable. They'll become more comfortable.
Naseema McElroy (33:20): Yes, 100% so I appreciate you taking time out of your busy schedule and taking time maybe away from your grandson to speak to me, but it has been a pure pleasure. Like this has been so awesome. Like Oh you just lightened up my life. Like seriously. I love it. Yeah. So anybody interested in learning more about the things that Desiree did? Everything is in the RN blogs, free content that you can consume, ready to feed, Mr. Money Mustache forums, all these places and to collect, connect with like minded people, you're free to join the Nurses on Fire Facebook group. There's all kind of Facebook groups. Mr. Money Mustache has Facebook groups and forums that you can join, like all those kinds of places and start surrounding yourself with people that are doing things just like this. So you know what's possible for you. Again, thank you so much Desiree for joining me. I really appreciate talking to you. I had so much fun and I'm wishing you all the best in your life living financially free. Thank you.
Hey there I’m Naseema
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