This Nurse is Along the Camel Ride- Ep. 36
Katie started her journey pursuing financial independence at age 14 when she began investing her babysitting money. After spending her twenties pursuing a career in the arts in New York City, her career changed into the much more rewarding and lucrative and field of nursing. Not to leave her creative passions aside, Katie blogs about her financial independence journey on her blog, Along The Camel Ride.
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TRANSCRIPT:
Naseema McElroy: 00:22 Welcome, welcome to Nurses on Fire. Once again, I'm Naseema. I started documenting my debt payoff journey on my platform Financially Intentional in 2016. Since then, I have gone to pay off nearly a million dollars in debt and have shared my story on several media outlets. In 2017, after paying off my debt, I was looking for what was next. I was a Dave Ramsey alum, but no longer felt aligned with the baby steps. Thanks to my girl, Jamila Souffrant of Journey to Launch, I was introduced to the FIRE movement. The FIRE movement or Financially Independent, Retire Early is defined by Wikipedia as a lifestyle movement whose goal is financial independence and retiring early. Duh! [Laughs].
Naseema McElroy: 01:10 Those seeking to attain fire intentionally maximize their savings rate by finding ways to increase income or decrease expenses. The objective is to accumulate assets until the resulting passive income provides enough money for living expenses and perpetuity. Many proponents of the fire movement suggest the 4% rule as a guide, thus setting a goal of at least 25 times their estimated annual living expenses. Once reaching financial independence, paid work becomes optional. Allowing for retirement from traditional work decades earlier than the standard retirement age. So, I've been a nurse for over a decade and love what I do. I also have become super passionate about personal finance. So, this podcast is my attempt to marry the two. Along my personal journey to financial independence, I've come across some phenomenal nurses crushing the finance game. I want to highlight these nurses and expose them to the nursing world at large so that you all can know what's possible.
Naseema McElroy (00:00): Hey nurses on fire community. I am so honored to have Katie join us on the podcast today. Hey Katie, what's up? Katie Camel (00:09): Hey Naseema, how are you? I'm so excited to be here to chat with you. Naseema McElroy (00:13): I'm doing great. And I will love for you to share about your story as being a nurse, as being along the camel ride and about how you are pursuing financial independence. So let's just start by you just giving a background of who you are and like how you became a nurse. Let's just start there. Katie Camel (00:36): Sure. So it's kind of a long story, but I'll try to give me the short version of a long story. So I'm Katie. I'm a 40 year old single woman. I live in Philadelphia. I may nurse. I did not start out as a nurse. I had a long route through going through the arts first in New York city, working in corporate America. And then I became a nurse. My career changed around age 31 into nursing. That's when we had Philadelphia and went to school and got a job here. And I just stayed because I love it here. And I started my route to financial independence around age 14 when I started investing my babysitting money and my birthday money and I just lived a starving artist's life for a long time in New York, but that surprisingly has paid off pretty well. I'm more than halfway to my FI number and I actually keep changing my phone number. I want it to be bigger just cause I'm paranoid and I want to have more rather than less. Probably from working in the healthcare field, you'd know how unexpected things can happen and medical care costs are out of control, so I'd rather have more money than not enough. Naseema McElroy (01:35): I love it halfway to your fine number that keeps on increasing. That is so exciting. Katie Camel (01:44): I want to cut back to part-time once I'm FI Naseema McElroy (01:46): so you're not going to totally retire. I like that. That's kind of like my path too. I'm just like, ah, I could be a nurse forever probably. Katie Camel (01:53): I enjoy what I do and I have fantastic benefits, so my leap that Naseema McElroy (01:58): exactly. That's what I tell everybody, like you can basically cut down to hardly working at all. Still have really good benefits, still be able to contribute to retirement and not really feel the pressure that other people feel like with going to work and just fully be yourself as a nurse. Like be there for why you're there and not because of a paycheck. And that's goals to me. So yeah, I love that. I also love say it again. Katie Camel (02:24): I have today. Totally agree. Naseema McElroy (02:26): Yeah. And I also love that you started at 14 investing your babysitting money because that's like me and said I didn't invest it, but I've been making money for a very long time, but I do was a babysitter, but do you know Lynn Friar? Katie Camel (02:42): I met Lynn. Yeah, she's fantastic. She is a very similar story because she was all 12 like I was. Naseema McElroy (02:49): Yes. And she went down to an investment conference and asked her, she said, I got time on my side if you were me, what would you do? And they that she started investing and then she went to the bank and she did this all on her own on the bus and she went to a bank and said, how do I invest? My money. She started investing there all by herself. And I think that a fantastic, I think she did it at 12 yes, you knew at 14 but how did you know to invest when you were 14 Katie Camel (03:21): I knew that my parents invested or my dad invested and I knew that I had a college fund, but I didn't know anything about investing. It was more from my freshman year algebra class in high school that my algebra teacher would teach us through algebraic equations, how our money would grow if we invested it over time and he would show us every single class how our money would grow. And I was completely fascinated by this process. I thought, wow, I can be a starving artist and still be a millionaire if I just invested babysitting money. So I went home and I told my dad that I wanted to start investing and he said okay. And I had already been socking away money in my closet. And so once he gave me the okay and we agreed to our terms that worked for both of us, I handed over my money and he started investing for me. And I told him what I wanted to invest in, which wasn't McDonald's stock and he said, as long as you don't buy a car or think that you're going to buy a car with this money, I'll let you invest the money. And I said that's fine cause I want to buy a house in a boat and I wanted a beach house and a boat. Naseema McElroy (04:25): Oh my God, I love it. But I love the foresight of this teacher. I just remember high school math, they were remembering like, Oh my God this is so boring. It has no practical application. I remember saying that over and over to myself, but if I would have been taught that as much as I loved money back then, if I would have been taught that, Oh my God, imagine how my life would have been if I would have invested at the same age as you but dang like how genius of him. Katie Camel (04:52): Cause we all paid attention and got us all to listen class after that because I am not a math person. I hated math was my least favorite. But I absorbed everything he said during those classes. Naseema McElroy (05:04): Wow. And I'm now I'm wondering about him like is he a teacher just because he wanted to be a teacher cause it sounded like if he knew those basic principles and he would've been doing it himself. Katie Camel (05:12): Oh, he retired early. Naseema McElroy (05:13): See look at that, he fired before we knew what fire was. Okay. I love it. That is so cool. Okay. So I guess the question is that you wanted that boat in that house at beach house. Did you ever get the boat in the beach house? Katie Camel (05:31): No, because I changed, my mind says the best days of the owning the boat are the days that you buy it in a day that you sell it. And I live in a city like I have no need for a boat. I have nowhere to dock it. I have nowhere to, I don't know, lug it. I have no car. I don't need a beach house or a boat these days. But I'm happy that with that babysitting money, I bought a house in the city so Naseema McElroy (05:55): nice. So use that money, that investment money as it grew, you used it to be able to fund where you currently live or just your first house. Katie Camel (06:04): So where I currently live and I actually still have a lot of that money. I didn't cash it all out. Naseema McElroy (06:09): Wow. The power of compound interest. Can, do you remember like how much you are putting away into your accounts? Like as a teenager? Naseema McElroy (06:17): I don't remember. I actually tried looking for the records cause I was a really good record keeper and I think in one of my purging episodes I must've tossed those records and I have searched and searched for them that my dad thinks that it was $1,000 that I handed over at first when I told him I wanted to start investing, I thought it was less, but he said he remembers it being about a thousand dollars from my very first investment. Naseema McElroy (06:39): Wow. And from $1,000 to enough to purchase a house in Philadelphia. Right. Nice. And to keep you the art to kick you off like well on your way to financial independence. That's whole so cool. Katie Camel (06:56): Right. Cause then it went from there. When I was 19 or 20 my dad told me to open my first Roth IRA. And so I went back and forth between investing in the Roth and also investing in McDonald's stock. So I continued both of those. Naseema McElroy (07:10): So you just had that one single McDonald's stock. Katie Camel (07:13): Right. And then that started at 14 and then from there like around 19 or 20 I opened my first Roth IRA and a mutual fund. Naseema McElroy (07:23): Okay. So then you started investing into mutual funds. So when did you discover the fire movement and realize that this was like who you were? Katie Camel (07:32): I think it was so April of 2018 I discovered it and I discovered it because I was really irritated. I had gone out with my friends, I would say, well one, I was making a good nurse's salary and so I kinda got a little reckless with my spending. I was never in debt beyond my student loans, my mortgage. And I was getting a little careless with my spending and you know, not being as careful as I could be. And I kept going out to eat with my friends a lot and I was getting really angry because here in Philadelphia we're known for our food scene. Like if you're a foodie this is where you want to go. But I was getting disappointed because I felt like so many of the meals that I was blowing all this money on were not very good. Like I was paying more for atmosphere than I was for quality, good tasting food. And I got angry just out of my frustration. I think I Googled something like irritated with restaurants reading something like that. Katie Camel (08:21): And I came upon the frugal woods blog and I empowered her blog. I thought it was great and I thought, Oh my God is someone else who doesn't feel like they have to spend a lot of money on restaurants all the time. And from there it just kinda snowballed into me cutting all kinds of expenses. And I cut my cell phone bill, I cut cable cause I didn't watch cable. Anyway, I think Netflix has so much and I discovered the travel hacking movement as well cause I was spending thousands of dollars per year traveling and I'm actually a pretty frugal traveler and I was still spending far more than I should have. I think I spent $7,000 a year before that on traveling and so that helped cut down those expenses as well. Naseema McElroy (09:02): Wow. I love it. And I love travel hacking. I wish I knew more about, I wish I was better at travel hacking. I just, that's something that I haven't accomplished just yet. But what's your method? Do you like do churning? Like what do you do as far as trouble hacking? Katie Camel (09:16): Yeah. Right now I am churning. I haven't paid for my past few flights. I didn't pay for my flight to Ireland last year. I didn't pay for my flights, Italy the year before that and I didn't pay for my flight to Croatia for this spring. And I'm trying to figure out how to do the hotels. So I had one of the hotel cards as well, but it's probably more churnning than I do than getting all of the different freebies and I'm also good about Airbnb and keeping my costs down. Naseema McElroy (09:41): That's so cool. And for people who don't know about credit card churning, can you just like explain it simply and then I want to talk about your investment strategy now while I remember to tell you. Katie Camel (09:53): sure. For my travel strategy now I've looked at the Travel Rewards 101 I think that the ChooseFI I guys, and I Google a lot in research that way. I also go into the Facebook groups to see what people are doing, but mostly I do the credit cards for airlines, so I use primarily American Airlines because I live in Philadelphia and we're one of their hubs. And then I also did the Chase Sapphire preferred card this past year. And those points I went got me my flight to Croatia because I had a difficult time getting that through American airlines. So I use my chase points for that one. I'm going to close that one and I just opened another chase card. So if anyone is starting with this, you're not really sure and don't open anything yet until you do the rewards research. Cause you wanted to come chase cards verse because they have all their strict rules. Naseema McElroy (10:39): Yeah, that's exactly where I'm at because I had all these other cards. I'm like, dang, I wish I would've known about this taste thing. So, and I just recently learned that it's like all credit cards. I thought it was just chase cards. So what does it is like the five and 25 rule? Katie Camel (10:54): Five and 24 so you can't open more than five cards. That's in 24 months if you're applying for a chase card. Naseema McElroy (11:00): So you can't open more than five credit cards in a 24 and two years basically. Katie Camel (11:06): But I think through your business, they don't count the ones that are business cards from what I hear. But don't quote me on that. Naseema McElroy (11:12): Right. And I'm sure that'll change. They're pretty on it. Yeah. So that's so cool. So yeah, I'm about a year away from when I can do that I think or maybe last maybe six months. But yeah, that's my game because I want those chase rewards and so that's pretty much why I haven't been travel hacking that much. But yes, I am very excited about when I could be like you. So let's talk about your investment strategy. So since you found the community, have you changed the way you invested? Because I know you started off with your single McDonald's stock and your mutual fund, but you know in the financial independence movement were heavily invested in low cost index funds and VTSAX is basically our mascot. So has anything changed with you? Katie Camel (12:00): Well I bought VTSAX I jumped on that bandwagon. So my first Roth IRA account was with T Rowe Price's emerging markets fund cause that was doing really well. That was really hot back then. And then I don't think I ever made anything off that. I think after I bought it course, it just plunged and it just stayed down for a long time. And then I moved over to Vanguard 2045 funds and target retirement day 2045 I also had an artisan international fund and I rolled that one over into my target 2045 and then I also, I think I still have at one but I also opened another Roth cause you can have multiple Roth accounts but you can't put in more than $6,000 per year total those accounts. So I also had the Vanguard dividend dividend growth investor fund. I have that. And then after I got into this movement is when I bought the VTSAX fund. But I had that as an after tax account because I've already maxed out my Roth IRA. I also max out my 403B at work, which is also through Vanguard. So I have low funds or low cost, low fee funds all over the place. And Vangaurd is just a great company. I think anyone who lives in the Philadelphia area knows how wonderful they are because we all know people who work there and they rave about Vanguard. Yes, I'm happy to invest with Vanguard. Naseema McElroy (13:22): Vanguard is there, right? Katie Camel (13:24): It's in the suburbs of Philadelphia. Naseema McElroy (13:25): Nice. That is so cool. Yeah. So do you still have all your McDonald's stock? Katie Camel (13:31): I sold some of it when I bought my house. I've only touched it so far to buy my house. Naseema McElroy (13:37): I wonder how much percentage wise it's grown since you were 14 have you looked that up? Katie Camel (13:42): No, I wish I could find the records for that too. Naseema McElroy (13:46): I think like there's like a time machine or something. I know Travis at student loan planner always uses this like time machine to look at like how much something was or what something looked like at a certain year. It's called the way back machine or something like that, but I'm sure that's not too hard to find. Katie Camel (14:04): Yeah, I don't know. I'd have to call them probably and ask for the records, but I know that when I was 20 years old, I was on study abroad in London and when I left for study abroad in January, 2000 I had enough money in that account for a down payment on a house and then the economy tanked. I guess it was the tech bubble burst when I was there cause that was spring 2000 and that money plummeted and I was like Oh well guess not buying a house anytime soon and then I just continued adding to it after I graduated cause I worked all through college anyway and I would add to that account I was waitressing and sometimes babysitting too during college. Naseema McElroy (14:40): So you've been through two recessions, so you went through your money drop through the tech bubble and then it dropped with the housing market crash that we recently had and thing is that you didn't panic, you didn't pull your money out, right? Katie Camel (14:55): No, I think my dad was always adamant about the fact that you don't have to worry about it because it's going to continue going up and I always knew to buy on sale. It was just drilled in me to buy on sale. Naseema McElroy (15:06): Man, I wish I had your dad and your math teacher because you got some pretty solid financial advice. And the reason why I share that is because, especially like right now, because of the coronavirus and stuff, we're seeing a lot of dips in the market and people are like, I'm losing so much money. But honestly you have not lost money until you pull your money out. Naseema McElroy (15:29): You still own the same amount of shares and when the market comes back up, you still own that. So just ride the waves, look at any investment chart and you'll know that it'll always increase and those drops like in 2000 and in 2008 they just look like little blips in the chart, but it always grows. So if you guys are filling a little bit of anxiety right now about how the market is going, maybe just maybe turn that anxiety into a feeling of this is like a really good opportunity to buy things on sale. Just like Katie said. Katie Camel (16:04): Exactly. Yeah, we like buying things on sale at the grocery store and at the clothing store. So why not buy on sale now? The other thing is, unless you're retiring right now, why do you care? Naseema McElroy (16:17): And that's the most people. But even if you are close to retirement, you have other ways to access money that until the market corrects, you don't have to tap into those funds necessarily and so it's not a time to panic really. Unless the whole bottom falls out of the economy. We'll be okay. Katie Camel (16:35): I agree. I feel like the media is kinda overblowing the Corona virus to an extent. I don't know how bad it's really going to be. No one does, but at the same time I think when I read today was it worldwide? There are 95,000 cases of Corona virus and yes it could continue to spread but we've had more cases of the flu. Then we have a coronavirus and we're still going. Even though the flu is still here and it kills way more people. Naseema McElroy (16:57): I mean that I think we should be more worried about this increase in syphilis who out here too. Naseema McElroy (17:06): There's like a whole bunch of other things we should be concerned about. But because it is a forefront of what's getting a lot of media, I understand that is causing a lot of people some anxiety and I understand how it has affected the market. So there are some real things that you should be feeling, but understand that just like anything else out there, this too shall pass and you will be okay. Just wash your hands, 20 seconds, soap and water. Okay. Katie Camel (17:32): And don't share pens look huge on not sharing pens. And I always alcohol my phone. Naseema McElroy (17:37): I love that. Do not share pens you guys and just implement a new handshake going on, elbows, feet, tap, all of that great stuff. So let's switch gears and talk about nursing and how you feel like being a nurse has helped you on your path to financial independence. Katie Camel (17:54): Well first of all, one of the things I love about nursing is the unlimited earning potential to an extent because if you work in the hospital or you can just continue to pick up shifts, I can't even tell you how much overtime I used to work. And I paid off my student loans. I added more money to my down payments. My emergency fund traveled a lot. Like I said, I spent $7,000 in one year just on traveling. And that was with, I think that was all overtime money cause I used to, I used to live at the hospital. I would easily work 14 hour days on a routine basis. I don't know how I did it. I don't want it anymore. Naseema McElroy (18:27): I've been there. But yeah, being a nurse I feel like is like having a blank check. And then I also liked that she said you have access to a 403b. Do you also have a 457? Katie Camel (18:37): No I don't. I just have the 403b Naseema McElroy (18:41): oh, that sucks. Well within your 403B because your 403B is through Vanguard. I also had worked at a hospital that's retirement funds were through Vanguard. I noticed that in the expense ratio for VTSAX for us, like just through a brokerage account is what 0.03% now. Right. So the equivalent inside my Vanguard funds for my work was 0.013 Katie Camel (19:08): wow. Naseema McElroy (19:09): Do you have that? No, as far as I know I don't, I'll have to look into that, but I know for my other 401k, for my old corporate America job, um, the expense ratio in that one is I think 0.89% if you have it just through the fidelity company itself. But because mines through my corporation, it's a much, much lower rate. I think it's like 0.04 Naseema McElroy (19:32): nice. Yeah. Yeah. But still, I was surprised that within, and this was because it was like a big hospital conglomerate, big hospital. They that that, but like I was surprised. Yeah. It's called Vanguard total stock market index trust or something crazy like that. But it's the same thing as VTI, VTSAX. It's a total stock market index fund. But yeah, I was like, Oh, I'm just leaving my money there because the expense ratio is so low. And so even though I'm not working there anymore, I decided not to roll my funds out because of that. But I was wondering because you have [inaudible] you had that but Oh man, but check and see if they have a lower expense ratio one. Katie Camel (20:13): I am going to check. I'm curious now. Naseema McElroy (20:15): Okay, so being a nurse you have all the opportunities to work basically as much as you want to. You can do geoarbitrage. You have the 403B. So do you have a Roth option? Also a ROTH 403b? Katie Camel (20:31): Just learned about that last week when I spoke to Vanguard. Naseema McElroy (20:34): Nice. So would it benefits you to do the Roth option or just a regular 403B Katie Camel (20:40): I haven't figured that out yet. They said I can do 50/50 if I want and I haven't done the numbers to figure out what it is that I want to do, so I'm still working on that. Naseema McElroy (20:49): Okay. So for everybody out there, it's going to depend on basically how much you're taking home, if that's going to benefit you. So basically just the traditional 403B you get the pretax deductions on your paycheck, but when you go to pull that money out in retirement, you're going to get taxed on it. But with a Roth, it's after taxes. So after you get, after they calculate how much you get paid, then they subtract the retirement contribution from there. So you're paying taxes up front. When you go to take out your money in retirement, you're not taxed. Then I think that you should have accounts that have both the pre tax and the after tax benefit to it. And the way that I do that, because I'm such a high income earner in California, it's going to benefit me to max out my traditional like 403b I have to, but I have a 457 as well. So I'll do like a traditional 403B 457 max those out. And then I go back out and then I just do a Roth IRA on the side on my own. And so that's how I take advantage of having, you know, those benefits of not being tax after. So now all my accounts aren't taxable at retirement. Katie Camel (21:59): Right? I have the balance of that too because I have the ROTH IRA. But then I have the traditional 401k or 403b. Naseema McElroy (22:04): Right. So people need to look at that. And basically if you're paying a lot in taxes, you probably need to be contributed more, into a pretax account. So just look at those things. So what advice do you have for nurses that want to do better financially? Overall, Katie Camel (22:24): I would say one, cut your spending. Find the things you don't need to spend on. Do you really need cable? Do you really need to? Expensive cell phone plans. You need to constantly go shopping. Do you need to go out to eat all the time? Can you find a cheaper option for going out? You do happy hour meals instead of full $26 plates, you need to have five glasses of wine or three glasses. Can you get away with one glass of wine at dinner instead? And there's also a thing called the buy nothing project, which I found through the Frugalwoods blog. And I love it. And I've gotten so many free things off of there. I've given away things that I have in my house because the wonderful thing about buying nothing is people will come to your house and take things away. Fantastic. Katie Camel (23:02): So if you're on Facebook, I would suggest finding your local neighborhood Buy Nothing Project you can't buy or sell anything. Everything is within a sharing communities. It's to know your neighbors and you have to give everything away. You can't trade anything. It's just giving everything and then getting to know your neighbors and creating more of a community. So it's really nice project. Other than that, once you start cutting your expenses, so socking that money away into your investments and like we've talked about, go for the low fee index funds just to get started. And if you eventually want to dabble in individual stocks, you can. But I would say to start with just low fee index funds. Naseema McElroy (23:38): Yeah, I love it. But the thing is, is just get started investing. And even if you don't have the best investment accounts right now, don't beat yourself up about it and don't not invest because you're doing analysis paralysis. Like just is really about the time in the market and not timing the market or not having the perfect investment. I use that like a target date fund. Like usually your employer defaults you into, we'll be just fine as long as you continuously contribute to it. So yeah, I really love that advice. Katie Camel (24:09): I agree. Just start somewhere. Naseema McElroy (24:11): Yes. So what advice do you have for new nurses? Are people who are interested in going into nursing? Katie Camel (24:19): I would say for new nurses, stick it out. It's a tough field. It's easy to get burned out. So if you are picking up a lot of overtime to pay off your student loans or to pay off any other debt, keep in mind that it's really easy to get burned out to get exhausted. So I would say pace yourself with you over time. Cause I definitely burned myself out at one point and then just keep at it. I think it's a tough field. You'll be beaten up physically, mentally, and emotionally and just be aware of that. And also my biggest piece of advice I think is be aware of body mechanics. I had hurt myself and my shoulder three years ago and I am still struggling to get over that pain on a daily basis. So he very aware of body mechanics. I was out of work for, I dunno, like a month or so healing. And then I went back on early return to work, doing easier work with office work for another month. But be aware of that because you have one body and you're going to have injuries and you don't want to destroy your body. And the older you get, the harder it is to recover. Naseema McElroy (25:15): Yes. I always tell people that, listen, you only have one body you gotta treat it goof. You gotta treat it good. Especially at work. You have to be aware. Yes. Katie Camel (25:23): Yeah. And then for people considering nursing, I would say go into it for the right reasons, knowing it's going to be a hard job mentally, physically, emotionally. You'll have long hours. You're going to be away from your family and holidays and weekends and even overnight sometimes, so be aware of that. There's great flexibility in nursing. You can go and get a job anywhere at any time. Sometimes the first job is really hard to get because most places want nurses with experience, but if that's what you want to do, go for it. It's a wonderful field. If you get bored in one area, you can move on to the next area is the best parts. Naseema McElroy (25:55): Yes. I love the flexibility and nursing and guess what? You don't have to be at a hospital. You can work from home. You can do research. It's just so limitless. I love that. So for people who want to reach out to you and follow you, how can they connect with you, Katie? Katie Camel (26:11): Sure. They can find me on Twitter. They can also find me on my blog, which is alongthecamelride.com. I'm on Facebook. You can find me on there. I have a group page and then I also have my own page. My personal page is Katie camel and honestly I'm an anonymous blogger so you don't have pictures of me on there and I don't use my real name. My real first name is Katie and you can message me, you can always email me at alongthecamelride@hotmail.com Naseema McElroy (26:36): love it. And before we wrap up, just tell people how you came up with that name along the camel ride. Katie Camel (26:42): Sure. So I was in Morocco during one of my many adventures and I was getting onto a camel in Tangier along the coast and it's a third world country. So their standards for safety are not up to par with ours, but the, my seat was not fully secured. And so as I was being raised up by this huge camel, I started rocking back and forth and I was terrified that my seat was going to unlatch and fall off and that I would sustain some kind of traumatic head injury in this third world country. I wanted to be men of impact, my home country to my hospital. But it was scary just being on this huge candle and rocking back and forth in my seat. But I equate that to life in many respects because life is unexpected where we don't ever know what's going to happen. Katie Camel (27:28): You do rock back and forth, you go forward, you go backwards. You never know what's going to happen. And the same thing applies to this financial journey. Don't ever know what's going to happen, but prepare and hope for the best, knowing that you could always have the worst happen. Naseema McElroy (27:42): I love it. I think that's a great place to wrap up. So thank you so much Katie, for joining us on the nurses on fire podcast. I know nurses will learn so much and they're probably just as envious of your dad in your math teacher as I am. Katie Camel (27:58): Well thank you Naseema. It was great talking with you. I really enjoyed it. Naseema McElroy (28:01): Most definitely. So if you guys are interested in learning more about Katie, make sure you check out all the places along the camel ride check out Katie Camel. And with that, have a great one.
Hey there I’m Naseema
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