This Nurse is Cross-Continental- Ep. 19
Luna became a nurse after her first child. She was in low paying, soul-crushing jobs with no benefits and could not provide for her child. On the brink of losing their house at one point, they utilized Dave Ramsey’s methods like the debt snowball to take control of their finances. Now with their financial house in order, Luna is able to raise her family in East Africa, while working as a NICU Nurse in the SF Bay Area.
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TRANSCRIPT:
Naseema McElroy (04:37): All right. So I am super excited to extend the conversation again to a nurse that lives abroad and works in this country partially selfishly because this is what I really want to do with my life. But I am super excited to bring on another nurse that lives in East Africa and works in the San Francisco Bay Area. So can you say hey to everybody and tell us a little bit about your background?
Luna Gio (05:10): All right. Hi everybody. I am NICU nurse working in the Bay Area and I've been a nurse for about 12 years now. I'm living in East Africa with my family and I'm super excited to be here today.
Naseema McElroy (05:22): Awesome. So talk to us a little bit about how you got interested in nursing.
Luna Gio (05:28): Well, I was working dead end job, low pay, no benefits, part time. And I had my first child, I was uninsured and so it was kind of just like a hectic time where I was just kind of scrambling. So I had my baby and I took a year off and then I was kinda trying to figure out what I wanted to do with my life. I knew for sure I didn't want to go back to the soul sucking jobs I had before. And I come from a family of nurses actually, and that just seemed like the right pathway for me. So I did accelerated bachelor's of nursing program. I had to do a lot of prereqs first. So it took me about almost two years to get that done. So by the time my son turned three, I was all done with my program and ready to go.
Naseema McElroy (06:15): Awesome. So did you go straight into the NICU or did you work somewhere else first?
Luna Gio (06:19): No, I went straight into the NICU. I knew I wanted to be in the mother-baby realm and I got a preceptorship in the NICU and that just segwayed into getting a job in the NICU. That's the only thing I've ever done. So if you're over five kilos, I'm not the nurse for you.
Naseema McElroy (06:35): That is hilarious. And I say that too about my patients. I'm like, if you're over three days old, I really don't know what to do with you because I don't like pees. And if you're really sick then you're going to go to the nursery. So you know, there that is. You know, that's where we go as far
as being, of course, I'd do the bums and so I'm like, if you're a man calling me for any kind of advice, I really can't help you. I don't know what to do with you. You know, if you fall out, I'ma just call 911 just like anybody else, you know?
Luna Gio (07:07): Exactly. That's the beauty of nursing, right? There's just so many different avenues you can take with it. It's not straightforward.
Naseema McElroy (07:15): Yes. And speaking of not being straightforward, you know, the way that we live our life, as a nurse, doesn't have to be like you got to work five days a week. You know, you take your vacation days 10 times a month and you know, you're kind of just stuck in this grind. You can kind of create a life by design because of the flexibility of our job. And you've been able to do just that. Can you walk us through how you're able to actually live in East Africa with your family but work in the Bay Area as a nurse?
Luna Gio (07:49): Well, it definitely took some time, right? It wasn't like I just became a brand new nurse and then boom, decided to engineer this life. But after you take some time in your specialty and your work and kind of really know what you're doing and your role, there's other job opportunities. So of course I started full time and then just gradually, the last two to three years I went per diem. So when I went per diem is when all of the flexibility kind of opened up.
Naseema McElroy (08:17): And so how much a month do you work now?
Luna Gio (08:19): When I'm in California, my goal is to work 12 shifts when I'm there.
Naseema McElroy (08:24): 12 eight hours or 12 twelve hours?
Luna Gio (08:26): 12 eight hour shifts. And so I were, that is my goal and then if I can get over time I grab as much overtime as I can.
Naseema McElroy (08:35): And do you find that you can get over time easily? I know that a lot of jobs over time is easy.
Luna Gio (08:40): Sometimes. It kind of depends on like what's going on in the unit. So sometimes it's like you can't, you know, get any and sometimes it's too much and you know, you can get it all the time on both ends, stay doubles, whatever. They just need you to stay. So it kind of depends. But I haven't had a problem hitting my minimum shifts when I've gone.
Naseema McElroy (09:02): And so what does that mean like financially for you? Like how much are you able to make in California versus what that affords you in East Africa?
Luna Gio (09:10): Let's see. So I mean pretty much off the bat a couple of shifts are just for like my tickets and expenses and stuff like that. And the rest I'm able to bank for my kids. Basically, I'm responsible for paying their schooling. So East Africa in general, some things are inexpensive and then other things are expensive. So schooling is one thing that's on the higher side. When I lived in the Bay Area, my kids went to public school, so there weren't any kind of school fees to consider. But now there are school fees and so primarily I pay for school fees. It's kind of my main thing. My husband works here where we are now, too. So we're both working.
Naseema McElroy (09:51): But you're able to live pretty comfortably in East Africa off of your salary just working your 12 shifts a month here. Right?
Luna Gio (09:59): As 12 shifts every two schedules cause I work the first week of the schedule and the last week. So basically I'm here about six weeks and two weeks there. So six weeks off, two weeks on and I hit two schedules when I'm there cause my minimum as a per diem is four shifts the schedule if that makes sense. So when I work two weeks sprint, that covers two schedules. So between what I'm making, what my husband is making, we're able to live very comfortably. The kids all go to school, I have four of them so they all go to school. We have household help and things like that to help run the household while I'm gone 'cause my husband's working full time. So there are some things that we need in place here to make it all happen. It's a big orchestrated, you know, affair with skills, schedules and activities and just lots of things going on. But it all works because you know we have good people in place that help us.
Naseema McElroy (10:59): It sounds like you have a really strong support system in East Africa. Can you talk to me about like what led you to want to live in East Africa?
Luna Gio (11:08): Yeah, it's not so random. My husband actually is from here and so we wanted to have the kids really just immerse in their own culture and language and food and customs. And it was getting to a point where my oldest was about to be in high school and we had been talking about this for years. My husband and I have been together over 20 years and we knew if he starts high school, we just felt like it was a deadline. It's not going to happen. We're not going to be able to move a high schooler in the middle of his four years. It's just not going to happen. So if we're going to do this, we have to do it before he hit high school. And nine months later from that conversation, we were gone. So my husband looked for a job. Oh my gosh. A lot of preparation. So much preparation.
Luna Gio (11:55): I mean it's a mind boggling amount of preparation. It's definitely not an easy feat. One was securing a job. My husband had to secure a job so that we would have visas and be able to, you know, be in the country legally. And that also meant that he acquired some like additional online certifications in his field. So that was a process. And then we just had to like downsize all of our belongings. We have a home that we had to prepare for rent. We had cars that we had to sell, we had to establish new bank accounts. Like, I don't know if you've heard about Charles Schwab and it's high yield investor checking account. Okay, good. I don't want to sound like a commercial, but you know that we had to just move all of our banking and so that we would have ease of use, you know, while we were here. We had to do medical, like vaccination.
Naseema McElroy (12:48): You know, I just want you to take a second and walk through like the banking piece and how that works. Like, because you make money here in the States but you have to spend it there. So can you walk like I'm trying to conceptualize that for myself.
Luna Gio (13:02): Yeah. So my checks are direct deposited, you know automatically by my job. And we have a lot of things on auto pay, like our mortgage. And the certain things that we have to pay for on a monthly basis are all auto pay out of this account. So some things just stay there and go out there. And then, you know, I just leave with cash and I bring it here and deposit it into my husband's account or we spend it as needed. There's some things that we do have to pay in dollars here versus the local currency. So, I carry cash with me back and in the chance that I can't do that, we just do wire transfers and transfer money into the accounts here. And the ATM, I can use my ATM anywhere here.
Naseema McElroy (13:43): You have the Charles Schwab. So explain to us, 'cause I know a tiny bit about the Charles Schwab account, but explaining to everybody else here like about the Charles Schwab account.
Luna Gio (13:53): Well, the beauty of this account is that they don't charge any foreign transaction fees. So the Charles Schwab account, it's called the high yield investor account. And the beauty of this account is that there's no foreign transaction fees. So when I use the card at the grocery store, at a restaurant or something like that, I don't get charged transaction fee for charging the purchase in local currency. And then in addition to that benefit, when I use the card at ATM to withdraw cash at the end of every month, they refund all of my ATM fees. Yeah, it's really great to be able to have that flexibility because I use the card here and then in my travels at different layovers, I use my card and so the currency can switch up pretty frequently. So it's nice to have that option to use it with so much freedom.
Naseema McElroy (14:44): So is this your primary account or is this just where you put money just for like your foreign transactions and all those things?
Luna Gio (14:52): No, it was my primary account. I mean that's where our mortgage goes out of and that's where my checks are deposited into. And then we have an account here that my husband's checks are deposited into.
Naseema McElroy (15:03): Okay. So that's cool. So talk to us about your process of like renting your home out in the Bay Area and so you always have a place to come back to, but then you're also generating rental income.
Luna Gio (15:15): Yes. I actually don't live in my own home when I come back because it's fully rented. We have a garage that we had stored our belongings in so we don't incur the cost of storage. So there was like some, you know, furniture that was passed down to us. And kind of things like that that we've kept in our garage, so that one thing is nice that we don't have to pay for storage. And then we used a company called Hub Haus. And they're very interesting concept. It's a company that rents the home from the owner and they in turn sublet each individual room and they maintain all the communication with a tenant. They communicate to me if there's issue with the house that needs repairs. They handle all of the transactions as far as taking the money, paying me, all of that kind of thing is handled by them.
Naseema McElroy (16:10): Oh my God, that sounds amazing. I don't know how I've never even heard of them, but that's awesome. Thank you for that resource.
Luna Gio (16:15): Yeah. And whether or not the house is full or not, I still get the same amount of rent and they don't charge the owners a fee like a typical property manager would. They don't charge a percentage. They get there. They make their money by charging higher rent for each room.
Naseema McElroy (16:31): But they guarantee your rent every month?
Luna Gio (16:33): They guarantee my rent every month. Regardless, it could be have one person or the house could be empty. The max in my home is five so it could be at five, it could be at four. I still get the rent every month regardless of how many people are in there.
Naseema McElroy (16:46): That is amazing. Awesome. I love that. Thank you for that resource.
Luna Gio (16:52): It's been the best deal and it's been so easy for us as far as, you know, I don't have to worry. I don't have multiple people calling me with issues. They send me an email or if it's a minor issue, they take care of it themselves and they just deduct it from the rent. So it makes it just really easy and especially being so far away. So it's nice to have that peace of mind.
Naseema McElroy (17:10): Wow. Okay. So we covered your housing. So while you're even working out here, you don't stay at your house because it's fully rented and that's taken care of. So you're able to keep your house in the Bay Area, make sure that your mortgage is covered and that's worry-free. So as it's generating, you know, it's extra appreciation by the high Bay Area real estate, then there's your benefit from that and then you also have a place to stay while you're out here and not paying for housing when you come out here. Right?
Luna Gio (17:42): Right. I stay with friends. I'm really lucky to have, you know, grown a large community of close friends that are family. And I've always been welcomed when I'm here for visit. Well, they think it's a visit. For me, it's like a hardcore work trip. But you know, I'm welcomed with open arms so I always have a place to stay and I'm an easy guest, right? Because I work night shifts so that I can stay on the East African time zone. And so basically while they're at work, I'm sleeping and when they get home I'm taking off. So I'm a pretty quiet house guest in that respect.
Naseema McElroy (18:13): I would also love to say that having a nurse as a house guest, that's how here from work is like one of the best things. I mean what's even better is having them as a tenant but for you which is extra awesome that you can just be a guest. So that is so cool. I wanted to switch gears a little bit and talk about the education in East Africa versus in the Bay Area. So, I know that you said that you have to pay for school, which is not something that's uncommon in Africa that you pay for schools but you won't pay for schools in Oakland. But you know in Oakland, I found myself having to pay for schools when I moved back out here. So it's because just the Oakland public schools in my neighborhood where I was qualified to get into, 'cause I kind of registered my daughter really late for school, so I ended up having to pay for school. But I just wanted to talk to you about the difference in the education here versus there.
Luna Gio (19:01): Well, there's a lot more options here. I feel like they have lots of different schools with different educational programs, so like International Baccalaureate, Cambridge system, the NECTA system. So they just have different choices at all these schools. So really you kind of see what program fits your child and your budget 'cause there's also a large variation and costs and kind of take your pick. So for us, we kind of have our kids in different programs. You have the younger kids in a Cambridge program and then we have the older kids in the International Baccalaureate program. They're really different programs, but they're all thriving. It makes a really big difference to be in a culture where there is high expectations for everybody. My kids are mixed. And so having their teachers, you know, be black and have their peers be black and brown and just something different about that.
Luna Gio (20:00): And I can just see the confidence has grown in all of them from the youngest to the biggest and just the comfort level and just having role models to look up to. It just really makes a world of difference in their core and like who they are. So school system here has a lot more choices. There's International Baccalaureate program, Cambridge programs, et cetera. So really it's about finding the program that works for you and that fits into your budget. I think the biggest difference for my kids in a lot of ways, it's a little more disciplined. So like the uniforms and dress codes and things like that. So I feel like school, overall, just has more of a serious like connotation. I just feel like it's a little more laid back in the Bay Area. So here it feels, it feels school like it's like a job. It's more disciplined. You really have to focus 'cause it's like the foundation, you know, of how you're going to do well.
Naseema McElroy (21:01): How do your kids like it?
Luna Gio (21:02): The kids are doing really well. I feel like, you know, my girl had the hardest time. I think it was just the age and transitioning and friend groups and kind of social things like that. There was a lot of different gender expectations and I think she felt that the most, my older son fell right into it. He found his friend group really easily and kind of ran with it and I kind of never seen him again. He's in such a busy social calendar and the younger two are having a good time, but I feel like the school was a little more strict and so that took an adjustment and then just the way things were being taught and presented and concepts, it's just different.
Luna Gio (21:40): They all repeated a grade when we got here. They were all kind of born in the summer, so young. They were young fives when they started kindergarten. So this seemed like no harm in having them all start over considering there was so much to get used to as far as like cultural standards and teaching methods and school environment and just the huge transition. So they all started back in the grades, the same grades that they were when we left. There was a little hemming and hawing about that, but now it's fine. They're all acclimated to the grades that they're in.
Naseema McElroy (22:11): Was that a requirement or a recommendation?
Luna Gio (22:13): No, it was a recommendation. And in the end, I found that it was probably good for all of them because like I said, they were young fives when they all started, you know, they're all different ages. They're not triplets or anything like that, but they were all born in same month. So...
Naseema McElroy (22:27): Wow.
Luna Gio (22:28): You know, they're young. Yeah. So like literally one was like turned five and then right before the deadline for kindergarten, you know, so I feel like since they were all kind of on the younger side when they started at schooling that it was to their benefit just to take a little more time to get used to, you know, being here and the transition and then just to get used to everything. But it was good for them and us. For us to navigate everything cause it's just, you're so used to knowing how to adult, like where you were. I didn't know how to adult here, you know, I had to learn all over again. How to do a lot of things. Just the language barrier and just the way they do things, sometimes it's different. So just having to relearn that process. So I know me having to acclimate and learn things over again that they as children would have to go through that same process.
Luna Gio (23:17): So giving them that extra time to me was beneficial. And I didn't see any harm in it at this point. They're all thriving and happy and settled. And I think a key element to is that they're just very comfortable and the expectations are just higher. My kids are black kids, you know, and just being in an environment where you have role models that look like you and teachers that have the same expectations of you and no different because of your skin color. I mean it just really makes a huge difference and their core of just feeling centered and kind of grounded. And I really have seen that change throughout this last year.
Naseema McElroy (23:54): And if that's not the main reason why you would want to have your kids live out there or just live out there in general, I feel like that is a tremendous benefit. And I think, and I'm glad you get that, I'm glad that you understand that and that you understand the value of being surrounded by people that look like you and that people that you can actually aspire to. And I think that that's underrated often, especially in America. People need to know what's possible for them. But sometimes it has to come from somebody that looks like you. And that's what I'm doing actually in the personal finance space. There's not a lot of people that look like us. There's not a lot of that looks like me. There's not a lot of person that look like, I mean that are nurses in the space. And I think if you hear a voice that you relate to or you see an image that you relate to, you're more likely to think that it's attainable for you and therefore pursue those things. And so that's the whole mission of this platform. But I am so happy that you understood that that's what your kids, not necessarily needed, but what would really aid them in forming who they are, their identities and what's possible for them in life. So I want to like give you a major kudos for that because I think that a lot of people just don't understand that.
Luna Gio (25:17): I agree with you 100%. And I mean, especially with my older son, you know, being that he's in his teens, I mean I can, I be honest with you, I feel like I've extended his life, you know, like it's America is a scary place for a young black male. And so for me, I just feel like I have preserved his boyhood and that he can be like a child and grow into the man that he needs to be or that he wants to be by being here. So really, everything I do is sacrifice, is for them. And they're just my priority in that respect.
Naseema McElroy (25:51): Amen to that. I mean, being a black man in America is just super dangerous. I mean you, if you think like one out of three black men ends up incarcerated or dead. And I've seen it just, you know, I'm born and raised in Oakland and just the men that I graduated with, few and far between are still alive and if they are alive, a lot of them have been in and out of the prison system and you know, it's very few of them that are successful. And so I really applaud you for what you're doing because I think you know, for most of the population that you might not be able to understand that. But when you are raising black children in general in America, these are things that you have to take into consideration, especially boys. Like you send your kids to school every day and you're not sure if they're going to come home just on the strength of their skin color, you know?
Luna Gio (26:46): Yes, exactly. And the police don't carry guns here. Can I just add that in there? The police do not carry a gun here. So it just adds to like, you know, just that kind of preservation of culture and self and just really being connected in a deep and meaningful way and knowing that you have power in that and that's to be celebrated and encouraged and loved and shine a light on it. You know, like it's all good. So that's what I want them to grow up and that was motivating force, you know, to be here.
Naseema McElroy (27:17): That's awesome. One more thing I wanted to touch on as far as education is that I find, and let me know if this is true, when you are educated in you know, Africa or any of those other countries like going to college internationally in different countries, is one of those things that's aspirational or that's something that's a standard I should say. So are your kids like because they're in this International Baccalaureate, like what kind of schools are they looking to go into? What kind of education are they expected to have post-secondary?
Luna Gio (27:52): Well, I mean everybody is expected to go to university. That's just the expectation. So a lot of his older, the kids that are older in the diploma program, 'cause after the middle years program is diploma and then from there they go to university, they're going all over Canada, the US, Europe, they're going all over for school.
Naseema McElroy (28:14): Right. And that's just the expectation. That's just the norm. Right? I love it. Like you're held to a higher standard. You actually made it. And I feel like our standards are so low here.
Luna Gio (28:23): Yes. But also, you know, there is a socio-economic twist on that. Not everybody can afford to go to these private schools and attend university and things like that. So there's also deep poverty that holds people, even though the expectations are there in general, not everybody can reach that because of the socio-economic imbalances.
Naseema McElroy (28:44): Yeah, that's very true. That's something that we shouldn't overshadow. I mean, and I hate this term, but you know, I looked it as a third world country, meaning that, you know, there are a lot of people that are living below the international poverty line there. And so education is a privilege, you know? I don't want to overlook that. Yeah. That's so important. But your kids actually have the privilege to be able to, you know, pursue that education because of where you are, how you position yourself. I mean it could, you know, you were born in America and so that's one privilege right there. But you know, your husband is East African and you were able to bring your kids back to Africa to provide them with, you know, what's best for them all around. And you know, that's what really matters.
Luna Gio (29:36): And nursing was a key component to that. I mean there's no way I could have done any of this prior to becoming a nurse. Nursing and becoming a nurse, like changed the trajectory of our lives. Hands down. That was like the biggest shift.
Naseema McElroy (29:50): Yes. And because you know, you're able to earn a very good income, just as a nurse without even having like the benefits and all that kind of stuff, that income alone that you're able to garner is what can help your family and you know, elevate your family to another level. So that's awesome. But this is a personal finance podcast and you know, I didn't want to skip over the fact that you were able to pay off a massive amount of debt and that kind of sets you on a path to to be financially stable to be able to do this. Do you want to talk a little bit about how you're able to pay off debt?
Luna Gio (30:28): Yeah. We had just graduated from nursing school and got my first job and then of course the first thing we wanted to do was buy a house, you know, the American dream. And so we did that pretty shortly after I graduated. And literally the day after we signed, the market crash, they were like, Oh no. So we're immediately underwater and here I am like making the most money I've ever made in my life and my husband, you know, trucking along with his career and like combined, we're making the most money we've ever made together and we're still not cutting it. Like what's going on here? There's something that has to be, there's something wrong here. You know, this picture doesn't make sense. Like on paper, we should be able to afford all of this, but it just wasn't happening. And so a friend of mine tipped me off to Dave Ramsey and we read "The Total Money Makeover" and just started on, you know, the debt snowball and that really helped us get things under control. So we paid off some of my student loans and credit cards and cars and you know, we got into a position where we finally could breathe and that we were not just so desperate at the end of every month. So that made a huge difference because once we were able to clear out some of the debt and open up some space, then we're able to really think, okay, where do we want to go from here? What's possible? Those kinds of things came in turn.
Naseema McElroy (31:51): So yeah, it just opens up a world of possibility. So is that the house that you have now, is that the same house that you bought during that time?
Luna Gio (31:57): Yes, we were able to hold onto that house and thank goodness we did because now we're fine. You know, we're no longer underwater, but those first few years were tough.
Naseema McElroy (32:08): And I bet you that house has appreciated massively.
Luna Gio (32:11): Yes, it's totally fine now. Not a problem. We're basically priced out of the neighborhood now. There was no way we could afford it now. You know? So it's definitely done well with time. But at the beginning, you know, it was just, we had a second baby and it was just a rough time, you know, and just kind of getting on the same page about the debt and controlling our spending. I mean that was the key element. It's like, okay, we're in a position where we're making money now, but we still don't know how to handle the money well. We're just kind of spending willy nilly. So just kind of really learning those steps. That's not something that's taught in school. You know, it's not something that's a learned behavior. That wasn't passed down to either of us. You know? So it's something that we really had to like learn ourselves and...
Naseema McElroy (33:00): Yeah. Well, most people who reach out to me, like it's not that they're like only making like $20,000 a year and struggling is that they make a pretty good income. But you know, lifestyle inflation is one thing, meaning that you know, they bought the house, they bought the car, they did everything that they were supposed to do but they feel underwater because you know, they haven't been taught how to manage money so they are not where they want to be financially. Like that's the most of my audience. And it's not like you're doing anything wrong, it's just that you have never been taught how to manage their money. So you know, you did all the things, you graduated from nursing school, you guys both, you know you are making more money than you would ever may. You bought the house like you were supposed to.
Naseema McElroy (33:43): And then all of a sudden like the market crashed and you have these babies and you don't know, like all these things and then you're stuck in a place like where you could lose it all. But you were able to pull yourself out of that situation by you know, using Dave Ramsey's method, getting on the same page with your husband and using methods like the debt snowball to pull yourself out of it. And so that's another thing that I want people to understand. It's totally possible. And that's why I'm so grateful for you for sharing your story because a lot of people are in that position and they just don't know what to do. And yes, it's possible to change the trajectory of your life and to open up to other possibilities, like being able to live in another country so that your kids are surrounded by the people that look like them and they can aspire to. And so, you know, I feel like you're living your best life because you're able to take six weeks off at a time of work. Come out here and just work your shifts and then go back home and then just live your life by design. And so I think that is incredible. And you know, thank you so much for being open and willing to share your story because I know it'll help so many people.
Luna Gio (34:59): Yeah, having the best of both worlds really. You know, I'm able to be the mother I want to be when I'm off and then I'm the nurse that I want to be when I'm not off and I'm working, you know, I put my head down and do my shifts and it's just a great combination that is fulfilling for me and then it's good for my family. So thank you so much for having me.
Naseema McElroy (35:19): Thank you so much for being on the podcast and I just really, I really want to thank you for being open and vulnerable and sharing so much of your life with us. And I'm really looking forward to seeing how your kids do growing up, surrounded with so much love and surrounded by their family and that support network that they have. But also, you know, just as you move through your career, I'm interested to see how that looks traveling back and forth. So oh all great stuff. So thank you so, so much for joining us on the Nurses on Fire podcast.
Hey there I’m Naseema
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