Socially Responsible Spending Gets Tricky - Expert Edition Episode 10 (Classic Episode)
Marie Thomasson of Modern Assets is back to discuss how we can be more conscious about our spending and how retailers with bad labor and business practices have made it too easy for us to check for alternatives. But everyone has to be aware that where they spend is a conscious moral decision of approving or not what these businesses do. We cover:
The dark side of the biggest retailers business practices and their impact to society
Having your values reflect how you spend and where
Alternatives to buying from these big retailers to those with better business practices
If unavoidable, how to still buy from these with the least negative impact
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TRANSCRIPT:
[00:00:00] Naseema: All right, nurses on fire. I am super excited to be back with our certified financial planner, Marie Thomason, and today we are going to be talking about how to spend your money, the socially responsible way. But this is gonna be really, really hard, you guys, and I have been looking forward to this because this is my vice.
My vice is going to my phone. and click in a couple of buttons and spending money sell so easily. So Marie, what are we going to be learning about today? ?
[00:00:39] Marie Thomasson: Well, nothing you wanna hear. Probably , but today is anything but Amazon. Yes.
So, truth, time. How, how many times have you purchased from Amazon in the last.
[00:00:55] Naseema: Girl, you should have said the last day, for the last week. Oh my God. Like I just bought a new cell phone case. I had to buy my daughter some Barbies because of black Dr. Barbie with the twins went on sale and then I had to buy some stuff for the house that I couldn't find in the store.
I, I've done, I've done at least three separate purchases since. In the last three days, I should say. Mm-hmm. . Okay.
[00:01:23] Marie Thomasson: Well, yeah. And it's even worse now because of all the holiday sales, right? Yes,
[00:01:27] Naseema: yes, yes. It's Black Friday early now, so, yeah. Yeah.
[00:01:32] Marie Thomasson: And did you shop on Amazon Prime Day in October?
[00:01:36] Naseema: I did not. I did not partake .
[00:01:38] Marie Thomasson: Okay. Good for you.
So, yeah, so a, all right. We're both laughing about it cuz we both. But I'm really curious, like, why do you think that shopping at Amazon would be bad? And you know, from a socially responsible perspective?
[00:01:58] Naseema: I mean, it hurts small businesses, number one. Number two. It under, it undercuts like a lot of prices, like across the board, and Amazon isn't necessarily like the best company in the world.
Like I really feel like they're trying to control how we do a whole lot of things. And so every purchase that you make is only support supporting that. And so, . Yeah. Even though Jeff Bezos act like black, black Lives Matter. I loved it.
[00:02:33] Marie Thomasson: That's true. But, but it's like the bigger picture, right? Mm-hmm. . So, you know, I mean, I think, you know, for us and for anyone listening to this podcast, like we all kind of have an idea why. Amazon is not good. And we all have an idea of why Amazon is also equally amazing, right? ?
[00:02:52] Naseema: Well, except for the fact that during the pandemic, the delivery times was all off.
And I'm gonna need a refund on Prime because I feel like , I paid my good money to have my two day shipping and he don't need that money, but I can.
[00:03:09] Marie Thomasson: Exactly . He definitely does not need that money. So, you know, they've got like pretty awful labor practices, which was only kind of highlighted even more during the pandemic.
And you know, with, with c o d and there was, there was employees who were trying to unionize and, you know, they kind of like just clamp that down. and then, you know, it completely undercuts small businesses like shit, it, it undercuts big businesses. . Mm-hmm. , right? Like right. You know, hello Barnes and Noble.
And I'm sure there was other book, big book sellers too, that I don't even remember anymore. Exactly. and borders. Do you remember Borders? Oh, that's right. Of course. I man. I Borders Old is gone. Yeah, borders is totally gone. Yeah. You know, and so it undercuts, it undercuts, you know, big and small businesses alike.
Their, their carbon footprint is huge. Like, hello, two-Day Prime, like when they introduce two-Day Prime, the, the number of purchases. and they did this very specifically because the per like people who have Amazon Prime they buy so much more from Amazon, right? Like, it is super easy now to just order a tube of toothpaste instead of going to the store and getting it right.
Like we, we all do it. Carbon emissions are huge, even though they've stated that they, you know, are on track to reduce them, they actually increased in 2019. But I actually kind of wanna step back just a little bit because we're having this conversation in 2020 talking about anything. But Amazon, if we were having this conversation 10 years ago, it would've been anything but Walmart, right?
Mm-hmm. . Yeah. And so, you know, I was thinking about it prior to our call, like, Is Amazon worse than Walmart? And you know, like they both have awful labor practices. You know, they both do the same thing in terms of employing a bunch of people part-time, you know, paying the minimum wage. They're taking over far more spaces.
in the supply chain and in retail and everything, right? Like they bought Whole Foods, like you gotta be a big company to buy Whole Foods. Mm-hmm. , they also have, which doesn't get a lot of press, Amazon web services. So how many companies have all their data on these services? This is kind of like their bread and butter.
But I think that in the, in the day and age of companies like Facebook and Google and Amazon, Where information and like data is, is king, you really have to think twice because yes, Walmart was the low CLO cost leader, but Amazon, when you don't have a bookstore to go to, to browse through anymore, what happens when they decide?
to choose what books and recommendations you look at, right? Like, this is really subtle, but it's, it's this massive shift over time where it puts a lot of power in their hands in like these algorithms. Yeah. And so, you know, it was never quite Walmart never quite had that power that Amazon now has, like in all aspects of our lives.
[00:06:38] Naseema: I mean like, and I think you just think about the data that's shared like between Amazon, Facebook, and Google. And I didn't realize this until I started running my own Facebook ads, like how I can drill down to the specific person because they have so much information, like how powerful their data tools are, like how much information they have on every single one of us, like mm-hmm.
it's crazy.
[00:07:06] Marie Thomasson: It is crazy and you know, the more power that you know, any single corporation, a masses, you know, the more, the more that can be done with it, good or bad. and in this case, you know, like they're, they, they build out geopolitical maps of, of locations that are more likely to unionize. Like there's all sorts of problems with the way Amazon is using their data.
And it's not just to stamp out the competition, it's to, to stamp out things like, you know, like workers' rights, like Walmart never. , the, the, the data and the, you know, like the powerhouse behind it, you know, that computing, all that, the computational force mm-hmm. to figure out where these things are happening.
And so you know, Amazon is a little bit different than, than Walmart. Not to say that Walmart's not catching up or that Walmart is like, when I say anything but Walmart, or, sorry, anything but Amazon. I'm not actually like condoning shopping at Walmart. Walmart.
I, I should, I should specify that. But it's, this is where, this is where we have to kind of say like, , like, what do you care about and are you willing to sacrifice the luxury of convenience for a long-term game? Mm-hmm. , because it took 26 years, Amazon has been in business for 26 years. It took 26 years for them to be in this situation where they are increasingly like deciding, you know, what people read or look at, or.
[00:08:48] Naseema: Yeah, I remember when they first came on the scene when I was trying to buy textbooks, and then that's what made textbooks so affordable. Cause I remember having to go to the bookstore, spend a thousand dollars, and then somebody's like, have you heard of Amazon? You can get your books on there for way cheaper.
And that's where it started. I remember, yes. Back in my younger days. Yep. 26
[00:09:07] Marie Thomasson: years ago. Exactly. That's what the first thing I bought were textbooks and CDs. Yeah.
[00:09:13] Naseema: Yes. CDs. Yes.
[00:09:16] Marie Thomasson: Those old relics,
And look, and now look at what Amazon has become. And I, I think that that's, that's one of the big things that we have to think. with, you know, with investing according to your values. Like, and this is why knowing what you care about matters. Do you care about, you know, like fossil fuels? Do you care about labor practices?
Like, what do you care about? Because maybe Amazon, you know, it's, it's not gonna be Amazon. Maybe it's gonna be another company that's like anything but this. , you know, like anything but Exxon or I don't know anything but Disney, like who knows, whatever it is, right? And so each one of us has to decide like, what is that company that makes it really easy for us to spend in a way that doesn't actually align with our values?
So for me, I never shopped at Walmart all that much because the Walmart wasn't close by. So, you know, like that's actually probably the number one reason why I wasn't shopping at Walmart regularly when I lived near it. When I, you know, lived at home for a short time with my parents, they always went to Walmart, and so I went with them, except now you live in, you know, in the center of Los Angeles, there's no Walmart nearby, so it makes it really easy to, to not shop there.
What's really hard for me is to not shop at. . Mm-hmm. . It's the equivalent. And so, talking about like, you know, shopping at small businesses and like trying to be very thoughtful and, and support all these small businesses. You don't support small businesses by buying their products through Amazon.
Right. You just don't Right. You know they're going to push up whoever they wanna highlight, and sometimes it's good, but on average it's going to be bad for every single seller on Amazon. Mm-hmm. . And so, and it's going to be bad for the consumer. Maybe not now, but you know, like, you know what happens if Amazon is, keeps going for another 26 years, like they've already got their own bookstores, that they're moved into the old borders, , locations, I guess, for real, right?
Like they just, they, it's kind of this scorched earth. Capitalism. They just completely, you know, they're willing to take losses for years and years and years to completely cut out the competitor and then they can go in and charge whatever they want after that. Mm-hmm. . Yep. And so, you know, I think especially, Thinking in terms of, and, and it's so hard right now because just because of the election, it's hard to get that out of my mind and, and those parallels.
But it's like every time you make an easy choice, you know, like what are the consequences for those actions? And you know, every time you just, you know, kind of throw your hands up in the air about like, I don't. Trump, or you know, like any policy that that is you know, maybe goes against your values and sustainability or whatever it is you know, you are not defending your values.
Yep. It's that, it's that saying that was kind of popular a few months ago during the protest. Silence is violence. Mm-hmm. , you know, and it, and it matters with everything. And in this case, it matters with, with the dollars that you're spend. So what is your ? How
[00:12:53] Naseema: do we do it? How do we shake this Amazon habit?
Okay.
[00:12:58] Marie Thomasson: So is you, for you, is it Amazon, is it that big company? Is that the company or is there another company?
[00:13:05] Naseema: There's Amazon and there's Target, and there's Walmart .
[00:13:11] Marie Thomasson: Yeah.
[00:13:12] Naseema: Yeah. So you know what we talked about this briefly and like I said, we can have a whole spinoff conversation with this, but I try not to spend it money on consumer products. And so that's like where I. , right? Mm-hmm. , it's like, I feel like there's so much consumption out there that somebody probably has something that I need that they're willing to give away.
And mm-hmm. , they're willing to give it away to me. And so like with my baby, I was telling you with my youngest daughter who's about to turn two in December, like I had a buy nothing baby. Like I totally. Relied on either gifts or buy nothing groups or yeah, that's pretty much it. Like either it was a gift, a gift card or, or a buy nothing group.
And I needed for nothing. Like I had everything except for this one, like medical grade wrap that I brought to do skin to skin in the hospital with her, but everything else. And I could, I could have got that for free cause, you know, , . But I, but I wanted it so bad that I was just like, I'll paper it and it's really good.
But anyway, so yeah, like that's the only. Other solution that I've found to getting the things that I need, or thrift shops like I, there's like a Loaf gold thrift shop that I go to, and basically they have everything there that I need. Yeah. But like for household things, it's really hard. It's almost like sometimes I kick myself because I will actually take the time to go to the store and look around and see if they have something and they're always outta stock.
And I'm like going every day to check in. I'm just like, you know what? By this time I could have ordered it on Amazon and it could have been at my house. You know, , it's a hard, it's hard to shop for certain things. Yeah. So I don't know. I have a solution
[00:15:00] Marie Thomasson: really. There's, there's not a good solution. You know, the, the fact is, at the end of the day if you choose not to shop at Amazon, then you're probably gonna be limited
yeah. Or you look up the, you know, the items. And a lot of these companies, believe it or not, have their own websites and you can order from them. And a lot of them will actually do free shipping. So you can find the products, you know, offline, but some of them don't have free shipping. You know, or they're not necessarily available, you know, they're, they're only working through Amazon and, you know, and it's, it's really kind of a commitment to, to saying like, you know what, I'm okay with less choice and a little bit more difficulty, which.
Really hard to do, right? Like if you walked into the grocery store and all there is is. Five types of cereal you pick. But if you know the grocery store across the street has 20, you're gonna go to the grocery store across the
[00:16:01] Naseema: street. How do we get so conditioned, Marie? I'm just like, dang. Like this is straight up conditioning
[00:16:08] Marie Thomasson: it.
It's a hundred percent conditioning and that's why Amazon Prime exists. Like we've now been conditioned. To expect, you know, this type of service, even on the backs of like, you know, kind of knowing what it takes on the backend from a, you know, from a company perspective to, to get us our products and what appears to be, you know, like simple, easy, you know, click it and, and it's on my doorstep the same day, you know, if not two days.
And because you don't see what it takes to make that happen, it's really easy. Forget about it. Right, right. So, yeah, I don't know. I mean, to me it's almost, you have to make a very willful decision to say, you know what? This, you know, so, you know, for me, I'm trying really hard not to, to shop at Amazon, but I, I, I love Reddit and I love the like the, the skincare Sun threads on Reddit.
And I love all these sunscreens that are like, you know, from Korea or Japan, , because they're better I think. And. I cannot find them somewhere else. Like there's Koreatown, there's Little Tokyo in la and I've searched the stores and I can't find them. And so it's like, okay, those things I'm gonna buy on Amazon, but when I do, I'll buy like six at a time and I'll buy them all at once.
and you know, I is there stuff like the Amazon Basics, it means that I can probably find it at somewhere like Costco. Mm-hmm. , which has much better labor practices. You know, they pay their team members who they call team members a living wage. You know, they give them holidays, you know, like there's, there are companies that.
on the margin much better. Like Costco
[00:18:00] Naseema: is. I love Costco. I love Costco. Costco get, I know Costco gets me now. Amazon ain't got nothing on Costco. Okay. . . Like for real, like, like money spent wise. Like looked at my statement like how you spent $14,000 a year at Costco . It's pretty ridiculous. . I know,
[00:18:21] Marie Thomasson: but you walk in it's, it's hard not.
It's almost always, it's hard. It's almost always at least triple digits. Oh my God.
[00:18:28] Naseema: Always. And I'm just like, I, I was really disciplined, like when I was paying off my debt, like I would go in there, I would have the cash in my hand that I was gonna spend, and then that was it. But then I got a Costco card and you get all this cash back and you get all these incentives and it's just so easy.
[00:18:47] Marie Thomasson: It is easy, and at least if you, you're gonna be easy with your money. Spend it at Costco and not Yeah, not Amazon and, and not Amazon , you know, like, yeah. That is a, a perfectly acceptable alternative. You know, Costco has been well documented for its very positive labor practices and you know, people haven't wanted to unionize there because they are treated well.
[00:19:14] Naseema: Yeah, they have good benefits too. Yeah, they pay really good. Good benefits, good labor practices. Yeah. I love Costco. Yeah. But, but this is why Amazon is the, like, this is the hard button. Like this is the hard trigger to pull, like, to not buy from Amazon because of, like we said, the conditioning and because of, you know, The sh, the two day shipping and all these things that we've been accustomed to, you know?
Now, I mean, it's, it's our new model of reality. And so the only way that you can kind of change our style shopping at places like this is to kind of change your model of reality, which we know is like super hard for people because where people of, where usually people that deal in circumstance and not out of, you know,
[00:19:58] Marie Thomasson: Exactly.
Taking control. Yeah, so exactly. It
[00:20:01] Naseema: takes a lot of control of being in control in order to kind of change the way that you, you move around, especially how you consume, especially when it's so convenient and you have kids running around and you have all these other things that you're trying to worry about.
You know, the last thing you wanna think about is. Like walking around the store, searching for an item that they may or may not have. So yeah,
[00:20:24] Marie Thomasson: I get it. I know. And you know, and that's why this is just one of many things that we're talking about, right? Like for some people it may not be in your, within your control, right?
As you know right now or in the future, whatever, to, to like have the luxury to be like, I'm not gonna do. , you know, but maybe what you can do, I know it takes a little time and I'm, by the way, I am in the process. I've got my, my appointment set up with the self-help Federal credit union to switch all my business accounts over Nice.
Like you. Yeah, but you can, you can do something. Yes. You don't have to do everything, and that's why, that's why we've got options because you know it, the struggle is real for all
[00:21:09] Naseema: of us. Oh, guess what? I got moved up to number 45 for Greenwood. Did you? Yes. I don't know how, I think it was our episode, .
[00:21:18] Marie Thomasson: It's possible.
You never know. Oh, that's true. Because the more people you recommend, the higher, the more you move up. Yeah, the more you move up. So there you go. Yeah. Yeah. I'll have to, I'll have to check my number in line. Yeah, check your
[00:21:30] Naseema: number. Well, okay you guys, so we know this is like. Super hard thing to do. It's super hard for me.
But just be conscious and if that means that I have to spend more at Costco, I mean, hey, I'll make that sacrifice, you know, . But anyway, Marie, thank you so much for this. It definitely, like I said, it's a paradigm shift, especially right now. And who would've thought like 10 years ago this wouldn't even be an issue, but conditioning is real and, and it can shift really fast, but.
I want you guys to be in control of the shift as opposed to letting these big corporations shift your mindset about the way that you move. Cuz it has totally changed the way that we move, conduct business, think all these kind of things. And so if we can take control of that and shift it for ourselves, we take our power back.
So I hope this was.
[00:22:23] Marie Thomasson: Exactly. And I will just add, cuz this isn't something we, we touched on, but you have to remember that you know, Jeff Bezos is a billionaire, right? and billionaires are the people who control legislation and regulation. So if you want to control. Regulation and legislation or change it.
Change who's in control of it and the only way to do that. Yeah. There's only one way to do that and it's actually like, that's probably simpler than getting Congress .
[00:22:55] Naseema: Yeah, it's, I mean, cuz who controls Congress? deep pockets control the elections. Oh, , that's another topic for another day. Oh, it sure is.
[00:23:09] Marie Thomasson: All right, so thank you for letting me get that. Slide
[00:23:12] Naseema: that in. No, but that was, that's, that's where it's at. Like, that's the truth. A hundred percent the truth. But yeah, the only way to really affect change is to affect people's pockets and. He wouldn't be a billionaire if we didn't consume the way that we did.
So just food for thought. And just leave you with that because it's really something to think about. So thank you guys. Thank you Marie, so much.
Yes. All right, see you then. Bye.
Hey there I’m Naseema
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