Vol. 39 - Socially Responsible Spending, Making Changes at a Local Level
Marie Thomasson of Modern Assets is back to discuss how we can be more conscious about our spending and how retailers with bad labor and business practices have made it too easy for us to check for alternatives. But everyone has to be aware that where they spend is a conscious moral decision of approving or not what these businesses do. We cover:
The dark side of the biggest retailers business practices and their impact to society
Having your values reflect how you spend and where
Alternatives to buying from these big retailers to those with better business practices
If unavoidable, how to still buy from these with the least negative impact
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TRANSCRIPT:
Naseema McElroy: [00:00:00] All right, nurses on fire. I am super excited to be back with our certified financial planner, Marie Thomasson. And today we are going to be talking about how to spend your money, the socially responsible way, but this is going to be really, really hard. You guys, it, I have been looking forward to this because this is my advice.
My advice is gone to my phone. And clicking a couple of buttons and spending money, cell phone easily. So Murray, but are we going to be learning about,
Marie Thomasson: [00:00:39] well, nothing you want to hear probably, but, today is anything but Amazon.
Naseema McElroy: [00:00:45] Yes.
Marie Thomasson: [00:00:49] So, so, like truth, truth time. How, how many times have you purchased from Amazon in the last month?
Naseema McElroy: [00:00:55] Girl? You should've said the last day or the last week. Oh my God. Like. I just bought a new cell phone case. I had to buy my daughter some Barbies because of black doctor Barbie with the twins, went on sale.
And then I had to buy some stuff for the house that I couldn't find in the store. I've done at least three per three separate purchases since. In the last three days I was say,
Marie Thomasson: [00:01:23] okay, well, yeah. And it's even worse now because of all the, the, the holiday sales, right?
Naseema McElroy: [00:01:29] Yes, yes. Yes. It's black Friday early now, so yeah.
Marie Thomasson: [00:01:34] Yeah. And did you shop on Amazon prime day in October?
Naseema McElroy: [00:01:38] I did not. I did not partake.
Marie Thomasson: [00:01:40] Okay. Good for you.
So, yeah. So, all right. We're both laughing about it. Cause we both know. But I'm really curious. Like, why do you think that shopping at Amazon would be bad and, you know, from a socially responsible perspective,
Naseema McElroy: [00:02:01] I mean, it hurts small businesses. Number one, number two, it undercuts like a lot of prices like across the board.
And Amazon isn't necessarily like the best company in the world. Like I really feel like they're trying to control how we do a whole lot of things. And so every purchase that you make is only support supporting that. And so,
Marie Thomasson: [00:02:26] yeah.
Naseema McElroy: [00:02:27] Yeah. Even though Jeff basals act like black lives matter. I loved it
Marie Thomasson: [00:02:33] true, but, but it's like the bigger picture.
Right. So, you know, I mean, I think, you know, for us and for anyone listening to this podcast, like we all kind of have an idea why. Amazon is not good. And we all have an idea of why Amazon is also equally amazing, right?
Naseema McElroy: [00:02:52] Well, except for the fact that during the pandemic, the delivery times was all off and I'm a need a refund on prime because I feel like I pay my good money to have my two day shipping and I need that money, but I can use it
Marie Thomasson: [00:03:08] exactly.
he definitely does not need that money. So, they've got like pretty awful labor practices, which was only kind of highlighted even more during the pandemic. and you know, with, with COVID and there was, employees who were trying to unionize and, you know, they kind of like just clamp that down.
And then, you know, it completely undercuts small businesses. Like , it undercuts big businesses, right? Like, hello, Barnes and noble. And I'm sure there was other books, big booksellers too, that I don't even remember anymore.
Naseema McElroy: [00:03:46] Exactly. Borders. Do you remember borders? Oh,
Marie Thomasson: [00:03:51] that's right. Of course.
Naseema McElroy: [00:03:53] Borders is gone. Yeah.
Marie Thomasson: [00:03:55] Borders is totally gone. and so it undercuts, big and small businesses alike. their, carbon footprint is huge. Like hello today prime, like when they introduced today prime that the number of purchases and they did this very specifically because the per, like people who have Amazon prime, they buy so much more from Amazon, right?
Like, It is super easy now to just order a tube of toothpaste instead of going to the store and getting it right. we all do it. so. Carbon emissions are huge, even though they've stated that they, you know, are on track to reduce them. They actually increased in 2019, but I actually kind of want to step back just a little bit because we're having this conversation in 2020 talking about anything, but Amazon, if we were having this conversation 10 years ago, it would have been anything but Walmart.
Right. And so, you know, I was thinking about it prior to our call, like. Is Amazon worse than Walmart. And you know, like they both have awful labor practices, you know, they both do the same thing in terms of employing a bunch of people part-time, you know, paying the minimum wage. so what makes Amazon different?
And. And I think that what makes Amazon different is that they, because they've been online and because our entire lives have converged online, they're taking over far more spaces. In the supply chain and in retail and everything, right? Like they bought whole foods. Like you gotta be a big company to buy whole foods.
They also have, which doesn't get a lot of press Amazon web services. So how many companies have all their data on the services? This is kind of like their bread and butter. but I think that in the, in the day and age of companies like Facebook and Google and Amazon. Where information and like data is King.
You really have to think twice because yes, Walmart was the low cost leader, but Amazon, when you don't have a bookstore to go to, to browse through anymore, what happens when they decide to choose what books and recommendations you look at? Right. Like, this is really subtle, but it's this massive shift over time where it puts a lot of power in their hands, in big these algorithms.
And so, you know, it was never quite, Walmart never quite had that power that Amazon now has, like in all aspects of our lives.
Naseema McElroy: [00:06:45] I mean, like you just think about the data that's shared, like between Amazon, Facebook and Google. And I didn't realize this until I started running my own Facebook ads, like how I can drill down to the specific person, because they have so much information, like how powerful their data tools are, like how much information they have on every single one of us.
Like, it's crazy.
Marie Thomasson: [00:07:13] It is crazy. And the more power that any single corporation masses, the more that can be done with it good or bad. And in this case, they build out geo-political maps of, of locations that are more likely to unionize like theirs. All sorts of problems with the way Amazon is using their data.
And it's not just to stamp out the competition it's to stamp out things like, you know, like workers' rights, like Walmart never had data and the powerhouse behind it, that computing all that, the computational force to figure out where these things are happening.
And so, you know, Amazon is a little bit different than, Walmart, not to say that Walmart's not catching up or that Walmart is like, when I say anything, but Walmart or sorry, anything, but Amazon, I'm not actually like condoning shopping at
Naseema McElroy: [00:08:13] Walmart.
Marie Thomasson: [00:08:17] I should specify that. but this is where we have to kind of say like, what do you care about? And are you willing to sacrifice the luxury of convenience for a longterm game? Because it took 26 years. Amazon has been in business for 26 years. It took 26 years for them to be in this situation where they are, increasingly deciding, what people read or look at or buy.
Naseema McElroy: [00:08:47] Yeah. I remember when they first came on the scene when I was trying to buy textbooks and then that's what make textbooks more affordable because I remember having to go to the bookstore, spend a thousand dollars. And if someone's like, have you heard of it? You can get your books on there for way cheaper.
And that's the way it started. I don't remember. Yes. Back in my younger days. All 26 years ago.
Marie Thomasson: [00:09:07] Exactly. That's the first thing I bought were textbooks and CDs.
Naseema McElroy: [00:09:11] Yeah. Yeah. CD
Marie Thomasson: [00:09:15] old relics
and look, and now look at what Amazon has become. And I think that's one of the big things that we have to think about. With, you know, with investing, according to your values, like, and this is why knowing what you care about matters. Do you care about, fossil fuels, do you care about labor practices?
Like what do you care about? Because maybe Amazon, you know, it's, it's not going to be Amazon. Maybe it's going to be another company. That's like anything, but this company. You know, like anything but Exxon or I don't know anything but Disney, like who knows whatever it is. Right. And so each one of us has to decide, like, what is that company that makes it really easy for us to spend in a way that doesn't actually align with our values.
So for me, I never shopped at Walmart all that much because the Walmart wasn't close by. So, you know, like that's it actually, probably the number one reason why I wasn't shopping at Walmart regularly when I lived near it. When I, lived at home for a short time with my parents, they always went to Walmart.
And so I went with them. Except now you live in, in the center of Los Angeles, there's no Walmart nearby. So it makes it really easy to not shop there. What's really hard for me. Is to not shop at Amazon, it's the equivalent. And so, just to kind of piggyback on our conversation from last week, talking about like, shopping at small businesses and like trying to be very thoughtful and, and support all these small businesses.
You don't support small businesses by buying their products through Amazon. You just don't. You know, they're going to push up whoever they want to highlight, and sometimes it's good, but on average, it's going to be bad for every single seller on Amazon. and it's going to be bad for the consumer, maybe not now, but you know, You know what happens if, if the Amazon is, keeps going for another 26 years, like they've already got their own bookstores that they're moved into the old boarders locations, I guess.
Right? Like they just, it's kind of this scorched earth. Capitalism. They just completely, you know, they're willing to take losses for years and years and years over a decade to completely cut out the competitor and then they can go in and charge whatever they want after that. And so, I think especially.
Thinking in terms of an, and it's so hard right now, because just because of the election, it's hard to get that out of my mind and, and those parallels, but it's like every time you make an easy choice, like what are the consequences for those actions? And, you know, every time you just, kind of throw your hands up in the air about like, I don't know, Trump or, you know, like any policy that, that is, you know, maybe goes against your values and sustainability or whatever it is.
you're not defending your values. It's that seeing that was kind of popular a few months ago during the protest, silence is violence, and it matters with everything. And in this case, it matters with, with the dollars that you're spending.
Naseema McElroy: [00:12:48] So how, how do we shake this Amazon habit?
Marie Thomasson: [00:12:55] Okay. So w is for you, is it Amazon? Is it that big company? Is that the company, or is there another company
Naseema McElroy: [00:13:04] there's Amazon and there's target and there's Walmart.
Marie Thomasson: [00:13:10] Yeah.
Naseema McElroy: [00:13:11] So you know what, we talked about this briefly and like I said, we can have a whole spin off conversation with this, but I try not to spend that money on consumer products.
And so that's like where I go. Right is like, I feel like there's so much consumption out there that somebody probably has something that I need that they're willing to give away. And, they're willing to give it away to me. And so like with my baby, I was telling you with my, youngest daughter, who's about to turn two in December.
Like I had to buy nothing, baby. Like I totally, Relied on either gifts or buy nothing groups or, yeah, that's pretty much it like either it was a gift, a gift card or a buy nothing group. And I needed for nothing. Like I had everything, except for this one, like medical grade wrap that I brought to do skin to skin in the hospital with her, but everything else.
And I CA I could've got that for free cause, you know, but I wanted it though bad that I was just like, I'll pay for Ryan is really good. Right. But anyway, so, yeah, that's the only. Other solution that I've found to getting the things that I need or thrift shops, like there's like a local thrift shop that I go to.
And basically they have everything there that I need, but for household things, it's really hard. It's almost like sometimes I kick myself because I will actually take the time to go to the store and look around and see if they have something. And they're always out of stock and I'm going every day to check in.
I'm just like, you know what, by this time I ordered it on Amazon and they could have been in my house, you know, it's a hard, it's hard for certain things. Yeah. So I don't know. I don't have a solution really.
Marie Thomasson: [00:14:58] there's not a good solution. You know, the, the fact is at the end of the day, if you choose not to shop at Amazon, then you're probably going to be limited in terms of choice, or you look up the, you know, the items and a lot of these companies believe it or not have their own websites and you can order from them.
And a lot of them will actually do free shipping. So you can find the products, offline, but some of them don't have free shipping. you know, or they're not necessarily available, you know, they're, they're only working for Amazon and, and it's, really kind of a commitment to, to saying like, you know what, I'm okay with less choice and a little bit more difficulty, which is.
Really hard to do, right? Like if you walked into the grocery store and all there is, is like, Five types of cereal you pick. But if you know that grocery store across the street has 20, you're going to go to the grocery store across the street.
Naseema McElroy: [00:15:57] How do we get so conditioned Marie? I'm just like, dang, like this is straight up conditioning.
Marie Thomasson: [00:16:03] It a hundred percent conditioning. And that's why Amazon prime exists. Like we've now been conditioned. To expect, you know, this type of service, even on the backs of like, you know, kind of knowing what it takes on the backend from a company perspective to get us our products and what appears to be, you know, like simple, easy, , click it.
And it's all my doorstep the same day, you know, if not two days and because you don't see what it takes. To make that happen. It's really easy to just forget about it. Right. So I don't know. I mean, to me, it's almost, you have to make a very willful decision to say, you know what. for me, I'm trying really hard not to shop at Amazon, but I, I love Reddit and I love the, like the skincare stuff threads on Reddit and, I love all these sunscreens that are like, from Korea or Japan, because they're better, I think.
And so I cannot find them somewhere else. Like there's Korea town, there's little Tokyo in LA and I've searched the stores and I can't find them. And so it's like, okay, those things I'm going to buy on Amazon. But when I do what buy like six at a time and I'll buy them all at once. And, you know, is there stuff like the Amazon basics?
It means that I can probably find it at somewhere like Costco, which has much better labor practices. they pay their team members who they call team members, living wage, they give them holidays, like there's, there are companies that are. On the margin much better. .
Naseema McElroy: [00:17:50] I love Costco.
I love Costco. And Costco gets me now Amazon and got nothing on Costco. Okay. Like for real, , like money spent wise, like looked at my statement, like how do you spend $14,000 a year at Costco? It's pretty ridiculous.
Marie Thomasson: [00:18:10] I know. But you walk in it's hard not to. It's almost always at least triple digits.
Naseema McElroy: [00:18:15] Oh my God. Always. And I'm just like, I was really disciplined. Like when I was paying off my dad, like I would go in there. I would have the cash in my hand. I was going to spend, and then that was it. But then I got a Costco card and you get all this cash back and you get all these incentives and it's. So easy.
Marie Thomasson: [00:18:35] It is easy. And at least if you get, you're going to be easy with your money, you spend it at Costco and not
Naseema McElroy: [00:18:42] Amazon
Marie Thomasson: [00:18:43] and not Amazon. Yeah. That is a perfectly acceptable alternative. You know, Costco has been well-documented for its very positive labor practices and you know, people haven't wanted to unionize there because they are treated well.
Naseema McElroy: [00:19:04] Yeah, they have good benefits too. Yeah. They pay really good. Good benefits. Good labor practices. Yeah. I love Costco, but, but th th this is why Amazon is like, this is the hard button. Like, this is a hard trigger to pull, like, to not buy from Amazon because of, like we said, that conditioning and because of, you know, The shit that's two day shipping and all these things that we've been accustomed to, you know, now, I mean, it's, it's our new model of reality.
And so the only way that you can kind of change our style shopping at places like this is to kind of change your model of reality, which we know is like super hard for people because where people, where usually people that deal in circumstance and not out of, you know, taking control. Yeah. So. It takes a lot of control of being in control in order to, kind of change the way that you, you move around, especially how you consume, especially when it's so convenient and you have kids running around and you have all these other things that you're trying to worry about.
You know, the last thing you want to think about is like walking around the store, searching for an item that they may or may not have. So
Marie Thomasson: [00:20:13] yeah, I get it. I know. And, you know, and that's why this is just one of many things that we're talking about, right? Like for some people, it may not be within your control, right.
As you know, right now, or in the future or whatever, to, to like have the luxury to be like, I'm not going to do that, you know, but maybe what you can do. I know it takes a little time and by the way, I'm in the process. I've got my, my appointment set up with the self-help federal credit union to switch all my business accounts over like you.
Yeah. But you can, you can do something. You don't have to do everything. And that's why, that's why we've got options because you know, the struggle is real for all of us.
Naseema McElroy: [00:20:59] Oh, guess what? I got moved up to number 45 for Greenwood.
Marie Thomasson: [00:21:03] Did you?
Naseema McElroy: [00:21:04] Yes. I don't know how I think it was our episode.
Marie Thomasson: [00:21:09] It's possible. You never know.
Oh, that's true. Because the more people you recommend
Naseema McElroy: [00:21:13] yeah. The more you move up. Yeah.
Marie Thomasson: [00:21:16] The more you move up. So there you go. I'll have to, I'll have to check my number in line.
Naseema McElroy: [00:21:21] Yeah. Check your number. Well, okay. You guys. So we know this is like a super hard thing to do. It's super hard for me. but just be conscious.
And if that means that I have to spend more at Costco, I mean, Hey, I'll make that sacrifice, you know? But anyway, Marie, thank you so much for this. it definitely, like I said, it's a paradigm shift, especially right now and who would have thought like 10 years ago, this wouldn't even be an issue, but conditioning is real and it can shift really fast, but, Let us shift.
, I want you guys to be in control of the shift, as opposed to letting these big corporations shift your mindset about the way that you move, because it has totally changed the way that we move conduct, business, think all these kinds of things. And so if we can take control of that and shift it for ourselves, we take our power back.
So I hope this was helpful.
Marie Thomasson: [00:22:15] Exactly. And I will just add, because this isn't something we, we touched on, but you have to remember that, you know, Jeff Bezos is a billionaire, right? And billionaires are the people who control legislation and regulation. So if you want to control regulation and legislation or change it, change, who's in control of it.
And the only way to do that, there's only one way to do that. And it's actually like, That's probably simpler than getting Congress.
Naseema McElroy: [00:22:47] Yeah, it is. I mean, because who controls Congress, who controls the elections, but that's another topic for another day. Oh, it sure is.
Marie Thomasson: [00:23:02] All right. So thank you for letting me get that slide that in.
Naseema McElroy: [00:23:05] No, but that was that's. That's where that that's the truth a hundred percent the truth, but yeah, the only way to really affect change is to affect people's pockets. And, he wouldn't be a billionaire if we didn't consume the way that we did. So just food for thought and, just leave you with that because it's really something to think about.
So thank you guys. Thank you, Marie. So much. And can't wait for next week where we talk about
Marie Thomasson: [00:23:28] investing. Yes, I can't wait. Yes.
Naseema McElroy: [00:23:32] Yes. All right. See you then.
Marie Thomasson: [00:23:35] Bye.
Hey there I’m Naseema
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