Ethical Consumption: Redefining Grocery Shopping at Farmer's Markets - Expert Edition Episode 40 (Classic Episode)
We're back with another heavy hitter from our ESG series we are joined by our CFP, Marie Thomasson as we delve into the transformative power of making socially responsible choices in our spending habits. We're talking about how shopping at farmer's markets can be a revolutionary act, reshaping the way we support our communities and the planet. From breaking down the challenges to highlighting the impact on both our budgets and the environment, we're exploring why this shift matters more than ever. Join us as we navigate the ins and outs of ethical consumption, uncovering ways to align our values with our purchases.
About Our Guest:
Marie Thomasson, CFP® is a financial advisor for progressive women. Marie started her journey with a prestigious internship in asset management after studying Applied Mathematics at UCLA. It turned into 13 long years, overseeing over six billion dollars in bonds for pension funds, institutions, and banks. The experience left her with a deep skillset, and a deeper longing to be free of an industry saturated in privilege, misogyny, and self-interest.
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TRANSCRIPT:
[00:00:00] Naseema McElroy: All right, nurses on fire. I'm really, really excited to have Marie Thompson back with us this week because we are going to talk about how to spend our money in a socially responsible manner. And we're going to start with an easy way to do it. Hey, Marie, how you doing?
[00:00:18] Marie Thomasson: I am great. It's so nice to be back.
[00:00:22] Naseema McElroy: Yes, yes, yes, and it's crazy because we are recording this episode on election day, so we are totally using this as a distraction. I'm a good distraction, and I'm interested to see what's going to happen later on tonight, but. This is a good distraction. Either way.
[00:00:45] Marie Thomasson: Exactly. And yes. It's pulling me away from, from watching the news and the, the polls.
For a little while. And it's good because at least we can use this time productively today. because you can stress all you want, but that doesn't cha make any change, right? Yes, yes, yes. And so that's what this whole series is all about. Like how do we make change? And I'm glad we're like hitting the easy button today 'cause that's what I need today, right?
[00:01:11] Naseema McElroy: Yes, we all need that easy button. Especially today. Yes,
[00:01:14] Marie Thomasson: especially today. Like sometimes you've got the energy and, and the time and the money to, to, do what's difficult. And today today's the easy button. We're moving on to spending, so we already, we already talked about, how you can save and I'm super excited to, to talk about it because it's something that we all know and, get farmers markets, right?
Yay. Yes. But what I want to do today is spend a little bit more time digging into some of the background because I think it's one of those things where you're like, you're like, yeah, it, it's a good idea. I get it, but like, how do you actually quantify that? Like how much does it really matter? And so I, I did my homework and and I've got some numbers that kind of, I think help paint the picture for why it's so important.
So
[00:02:10] Naseema McElroy: awesome. I'm
[00:02:11] Marie Thomasson: ready. Yeah. Okay. So I'm super curious. Do you shop at farmer's markets?
[00:02:17] Naseema McElroy: I try to shop at farmer's markets. I really love farmer's markets. It's just not always that easy to get to a farmer's market. However, because I moved to the farmland of this country, I do start shop directly at the farm.
Mm hmm. Which I do most of the time. Okay.
[00:02:40] Marie Thomasson: Mm hmm. So this is one of the biggest cons, right? This is one of the biggest drawbacks of farmer's markets is that it's Saturday or Sunday or Tuesday or whenever it is for three hours. And what if you're working or what, if you have to take a bus to get there, like there's a lot of limitations.
To a farmer's market, and you're still going to have to go to a grocery store. It's a luxury, right? Yeah. And I think that, that just sets up the idea that this is the easy button too, just because it's the easy button doesn't mean that it's easy.
[00:03:14] Naseema McElroy: It's easy.
Yeah. It's the easiest of all the alternatives.
[00:03:18] Marie Thomasson: Yeah, and, it's the easiest of the alternatives. And I think that something that we have to think about is it's a shift in how you look at your life and how you spend your time. You go to Europe, people are really used to going to different shops, like the cheese shop and the bread shop.
And it's so quaint. And probably if you went there on vacation and be like, Oh yeah, I'm all about, this life, right? Taking a Saturday, except that it's like a whole Saturday. And if you've been working your ass off all week and like, all you want to do is sit at home, this is not, and it's more expensive.
Yeah.
[00:03:52] Naseema McElroy: There's that. There's that.
[00:03:54] Marie Thomasson: Let's just get all the challenges out of the way. Like it's harder to get to, it's harder to schedule into a, a busy life. It's more expensive. You're still gonna have to go to the damn store,
[00:04:05] Naseema McElroy: and you know what, Marie, that's one of the things I wasn't going to say that because I know this is supposed to be the easy way, but I was just like, it is really expensive to shop at the farmer's market, as opposed to just going to the grocery store.
But like everything that we've talked about in the series, you get what you pay for. Especially if you are trying to be mindful of. What you're spending on what that's going into but also what you're ingesting what you're putting yourself into yourself. And yes, so I have this struggle, especially as somebody who's a personal finance coach and spending money like this on.
Food. Mm-hmm. that I know I can get cheaper. So it's always this struggle for me. So yeah, you did mention that because I was gonna say something, I was like I probably shouldn't .
[00:04:50] Marie Thomasson: No, we, you have to be real about it. Yeah. Yeah. Otherwise what's the point of having the conversation?
'cause there's a million people out there who are like, oh, just go to a farmer's market. It's so easy. It's so good. Of course we know the benefits yeah, we get it. it's local, locally sourced. It's going to be stuff that's in season. You have more variety. You also have to know how to cook.
You have to know what to do with the damn veggies once you get them. And it's not that easy. But that said, I think that just, we get it, we get that there's challenges to shopping at the, at the farmer's market. There's so much good to be said.
And when we think about it through the lens of like, all right, you want to invest your money and your, according to your values and you want to be sustainable, this is it. So the reason why we're focusing specifically on the farmer's market today is because food is about 10% of the average American's budget.
All right. The less money you have, the bigger, the portion of the pie, the more money you have, the smaller, it's not I guess food can't get more expensive, but you can only fit so much in your mouth. And anyone serving, anyone meal. So it's 10% of our budget.
Think about that. It's the third largest expense. After housing and transportation. So when we think about housing, it's either you rent or you have a mortgage Like can you really be sustainable with your rent or your mortgage? Not really, Like it is what it is I suppose you could boycott the big property managers, but good luck and you know if you live somewhere in the Bay Area or LA any like Urban area like you're just happy you have a place of your head and that they accepted your application if you're a renter and if you got a mortgage like You get a mortgage and sure you can get it at your credit union, but who's to say it's not going to get sold off to somebody else.
So you have very little save over those dollars and that's huge because that's 25%, anywhere from 25 to 50% of the average American's budget, which you have zero say over. So talk about disempowering which is, why I love CDFIs because at least they help people get into, just having a mortgage period.
But and then after that comes transportation. The average person buys a new car or, use whatever it is like every 10 years, like chances are, even if you want to get an electric vehicle, you have to be able to afford it. Or maybe you bought a car four years ago, it's going to be a while.
[00:07:24] Naseema McElroy: Oh, I'm like 10 years, girl. I get a new car like every two years.
I'm sorry, I'm so special now. And I have two Teslas, so there's that.
[00:07:40] Marie Thomasson: No judgment here. No judgment here. The longer you own the car, the more sustainable you are in essence. Unless it's some like gas guzzler from 1984 with an eight track in it, but ideally, if you want to be sustainable at this point for me It's better to just keep my good old subaru and drive it than it is to buy a new electric vehicle just because of the Electricity takes to create that vehicle, somebody's got to buy these, you know these cars So you've got your place in the food chain so then we come to the third thing which is food and this is something that we have A whole lot more control over because we're buying food, maybe not every day, but almost, either you're going and getting lunch somewhere or, it's 20, 30 at a time where it becomes your third largest expenditure for most people.
And it's you've got a lot of power there, right? Like just saving 10%. Which, if you can do it, if you can do more, but saving 10% is like pretty, like a conventional wisdom, bending 10% and consider that like good for you. But spending 10% of your income on food is huge.
It's over 2 trillion of, money that Americans spend on food every year, like 2 trillion. And the really sad fact is, is that like the top 15% and this is an outdated statistic. I couldn't find anything newer, but the top 15% of food producers control like 90% of our food output, like hello, Walmart, right?
And just when you look at these big mega corporations and in this case, we're talking about big ag we're talking about big Agriculture like this money is not coming back to our communities This money is not coming back to you, right? Like they're all about efficiencies and scale aka, like bottom dollar wages to part time workers who don't get benefits like this doesn't help anybody except, the people in their towers at the top of the food chain, of the literal food chain.
And it also doesn't benefit our planet. Big ag. So big agriculture contributes to it's something like 25% of the of the emissions, that are, contributing to global warming and climate change. This is huge. And so for every dollar that you don't contribute to them.
Like, where do you put that money? How do you divest from big ag? Will you invest in farmer's markets and CSAs or, farm side stands? That's what you do. I didn't actually bring up CSAs. CSAs are growing in popularity and it's the, it's still expensive, but it's like the home delivery version of a farmer's market, right?
So we can consider them more or less the same. 90 cents of every dollar that you spend goes directly to that farmer. That's amazing. When you shop at any big grocery store, the farmer's getting 15 cents on the dollar, like 15 cents on the dollar. This is why the majority of farmers can't afford to buy the food they grow, right?
It's subsistence living, growing food for all of these huge huge companies.
[00:11:08] Naseema McElroy: I was just thinking about just driving around, because like I said, I live amongst farms, like how do farmers actually make a living without a whole bunch of government assistance these days? Like, how is it even possible?
[00:11:22] Marie Thomasson: That's the problem. It's not. So most it's just not. And so it's been a long history of these smaller farmers. They, the only way most of them survive is that they form collectives or cooperatives and for the most part, farmland is passed on from generation to generation. And then slowly, but surely they get gobbled up.
So You know, just to go back, there's so many layers of bullshit with this, frankly, because one, farmland is expensive. And you look at historically who owns farmland. It's white people. So in rural areas, white individuals own 90% of the land. It's even worse than in like suburban and urban environments.
But even, this is a lot of the population that's very unhappy, right? Because their farmland is getting bought up because they can't compete. Government subsidies go to the people that, or to the, not the people, but the corporations that grow the most food. So government subsidies aren't going to small farmers.
They're just not. They're going to whomever can basically take the most out of the land in the shortest amount of time possible. And that's using, Genetically, like Monsanto seeds and fertilizers and pesticides and whatnot. That's where government subsidies go. So if you shop at a farmer's market, it's more expensive because it's actually the price of growing food ethically.
And so I think that that's something to think about it because we're going to get on we're going to touch on this on the next episode to yeah, it's more expensive. But maybe you do get what you pay for and what is the price of an ethical country or an ethical food supply chain?
Because food is fundamental. And the more that like, Amazon just bought Whole Foods, right? A few years ago, what happens when Amazon runs, Amazon and Monsanto run our, our food chain? What happens, that's letting another Trump into the the storage and letting them steal everything.
Then you're left without options. And when you, if you have the luxury of the time and the resources. Just think about it in terms of you know what yeah, it's more expensive, what's even more expensive freedom, just ethics, and so it's one way, I actually see it as like kind of like a radical act.
And of shopping at a farmer's market, you are doing a radical act because you're actually like taking time out of your day. Yeah, we go to the grocery store and we run in and get what we need. You have to like plan, you have to actually make a plan and you have to even think in advance about what you want to cook.
Like all this stuff, it's almost like you have to have a paradigm shift in your life. It's let's all try and be Europeans for a day or something and spend all day cooking. I don't know. But just the act of going to a farmer's market is really revolutionary because you're disrupting the status quo of.
Of our busy life and lifestyle and materialism and you're voting with your dollars that way. Like you really are.
[00:14:45] Naseema McElroy: Oh my God, Marie, like you've got me convinced. Like I was like planning my meal, like literally after we got off this, I was going to go to the grocery store, but now instead of making a left, I'll make a right and I'll go to the farm and I just rethought what I was going to cook for dinner around it.
So I'm being a revolutionary today. You
[00:15:05] Marie Thomasson: are, and you can do, you can do a CSA especially like where you're at. There's lots of places even if you just try and buy, I know it's more expensive, but trying to buy meat that, is like sustainable and whatnot. Like just pick, even if you just pick one thing.
Like one thing you're like, yeah, I can do that. What
[00:15:25] Naseema McElroy: solutions do you have for me? Because that's one of the things that has been challenging for me Like i've done like butcher box which you know has more sustainable meat But other than that like locally I haven't really found a solution
[00:15:37] Marie Thomasson: for that And this is one of the problems right like you actually have to search it out and so this is the single biggest problem That we have to combat like big business and big corporations.
You have to search. And the problem is that right now, unless you're like driving by and you see the stand, you have to get online to find those people and those products and those services and the values and morals that you want to, use your money or how you're going to spend your And Like in a world where SEO dominates, it's really hard.
It is really hard. The short answer is I don't know, because it's hard enough just in L. A. to find somewhere, find a co op, much less than somewhere else. There is no national registry of, people who are trying to disrupt the status quo in big ag. There is registries there's actually national registries of farmer, farmers markets, and that's probably, like, Where to start.
So even if you can't go to a farmer's market every single week, what you can do is go and talk to the people that, if it's meat or fish or whatnot, talk to them, get their business cards. They have it. They do have like other, like delivery services and other options. So if you can just even make a one time investment to go, maybe it won't work with veggies.
But maybe it would work with meat or something, like stuff you can put in your freezer and that's probably going to be the easiest way to, to actually just like local goods.
[00:17:19] Naseema McElroy: I'm looking online, I'm looking at localharvest. com and they actually have all the local CSAs and they also have meats and other kinds of groceries and produce.
I'm definitely going to hit. this up. Yeah. And they also have a list of all the farmers markets. Oh,
[00:17:34] Marie Thomasson: perfect. There we go. Yeah. That's amazing. So if you were, so I'm so curious because I get it. Like even me, I can't go to the farmer's market every week. I just don't have time every Sunday to go, stroll around for four hours and stand in these like freakishly long lines now because everybody's six feet apart.
But I try to make it a habit to go I really make it a, it's one of my goals to go at least once a month and you think about it and it's if you can go even just once a month, and in the U. S. we're spending two trillion dollars on food that's gonna add up to billions of dollars.
Yes. That, that people could take out of big ag just by shopping at a farmer's market. You're saying it's like a big F you to Monsanto. If that's not reason enough, I don't know what is.
[00:18:30] Naseema McElroy: That's a pretty good reason to me. Exactly. And if people don't know what Monsanto is, Google it and you'll be in shock. And it can control a lot of our food supply, a lot of genetically modified foods. It's why we have a lot of the health issues we have with our foods. The way that the food is grown in America has totally changed over the past couple of years to make it so that it's not healthy for us.
It's why you can get all kinds of food, all season, all year round. That's not supposed to be in the market, but it's not necessarily good for you. And it's why we have so many food allergies now is why a lot of things, like if you go to a different country, food tastes different. And so just do your research and just understand like we started off by saying you get what you pay for.
Like I said, I struggle with this myself. I cannot say that I'm perfect with this, but I definitely have this balancing act like this struggle in my head where I'm like, should I pay more for things that I know is healthy or should I go and, get what's affordable? Understanding the underlying consequences.
And so if this is something that you've been struggling with, like me, you're not alone. So
[00:19:41] Marie Thomasson: yeah, it's hard, especially when you're trying to be frugal. Spend money wisely and whatnot. And it is a challenge and it seems like a luxury. Everything seems like a luxury until suddenly you have no options.
And actually Monsanto Just to give a little more like historical perspective on it, even basically so they provide seeds to companies that are genetically modified. And we all know that. But what's interesting about these seeds is that they won't germinate like you can't harvest the seeds from crops when you're in reuse them.
And so what Monsanto did way back in the day, I don't remember if this was like in the seventies or eighties when they got started basically destroying our agriculture and society, but they were providing these seeds for free to poor farmers in like Africa and rural America and all sorts of places.
And they're like, here, we'll provide this for free. And so the farmers thought that was great until the time came when, like they, they harvest their crops. They sell it. That's fine. But then the next year, you have to buy the same seeds all over again. And so it's instead of being able to actually harvest your own seeds and so them again, it's like a debtor's prison, right?
Like year after year, you're paying to Monsanto. And what Monsanto has done is they gave these seeds away for free in the beginning. But then as soon as, If the farmers actually goes in, let's say they're like, screw you, I'm going to use my own seeds. Monsanto will come and do an audit of the soil.
If they find Monsanto seeds, they will sue that farmer. These farmers have been like, just put out of existence by big companies with, like their own interests and you just keep squeezing them and squeezing them until they die. Like farmers have one of the highest suicide rates.
In the United States and this is why like it is a bleak future and because nobody, like I, I think that it's a very little understood industry. Like how many farmers do you know? Like even me, I, I grew up, for in the Central Valley and. Like you see it, it's a way of life, but you don't really get it.
I think unless you're in it.
[00:22:00] Naseema McElroy: Yeah. Yeah. I'm, I don't really know farmers personally, but they're here. They're in my community, but yeah, they're not very happy what's going on there. That's why I live in Trump country.
[00:22:18] Marie Thomasson: Oh man. How is that?
[00:22:21] Naseema McElroy: I don't know. They just had a parade on Sunday. It was pretty intimidating.
[00:22:26] Marie Thomasson: Was that the big thing that I read about in the news that
[00:22:30] Naseema McElroy: I'm not sure I don't read the news. You know that. But it was this big rally and they were like in their cars, all these flags, Trump and it was an Oakley.
[00:22:42] Marie Thomasson: So I'm not sure that, but yeah, it's so scary.
[00:22:45] Naseema McElroy: Yeah. Really scary. Especially for my step mom. Who's my dad, my mom and dad are Muslim. And so she's like fully covered all the time. And so she's always like scared that they're going to attack her. Cause she's obviously very Muslim. And I was with her, we were coming back from Costco and she was like, I'm afraid I'm like, Oh, that's
[00:23:06] Marie Thomasson: awful.
Yeah. Oh my gosh. Yeah. So much for liberty and, like freedom and the right to. Be who you are, right? Nope, none of that around here. Yeah, so anyways, I do hope you go to the farmer's market at some point. No, I
[00:23:27] Naseema McElroy: am, I am. Actually, I am after I get off this call because I'm like, what am I cooking for dinner?
I'm making turkey burger sliders and then I was going to make like just a regular bag salad, but now I'm making a cucumber tomato salad with the heirloom tomatoes from the farmer's market are the bomb! They are. Yes.
[00:23:50] Marie Thomasson: Yes. Awesome. If you can find one open. No, no, no. The
[00:23:54] Naseema McElroy: farm stands. There's farm stands. Like I live there every on every corner. Yeah. I can. Yeah. They're not far. It's like I go this way to go to the, actually the farm stand is closer to my house than the grocery store, but it's expensive. Every time I go there, I'm like, I just spent like 8 on something.
I was spending 2 on at the store, but that's okay. But it's hella good though, and the solution is I do have boxes like on Wednesday, but you don't know what you get in the boxes, but I always I love to cook. So it does like really triggered me to use my imagination to cook.
So
[00:24:32] Marie Thomasson: yeah. And because it's actually. It's grown and it's picked when it's ripe, grocery stores. I think it's two weeks, there's no flavor in the tomatoes because it's picked two weeks before it gets to you. Yeah, I don't know. I grew up walking through that. My uncle actually came from a long line of, of disenfranchised farmers who now yeah, who now are, like pro Trump and hate everyone because his job and his livelihood was taken away from him and, he doesn't have a college education.
And, small town and I don't, I don't know what to say about it. It's, I see both sides, but I'm like, yeah, progress change. I don't
[00:25:19] Naseema McElroy: know. Nope.
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