Redefining Financial Freedom with Mini Retirements - Episode 42

We are joined by the incredible Jillian Johnsrud, a financial expert and advocate for mini-retirements. We dive deep into the world of mini-retirements, exploring how to break free from the traditional 9-to-5 grind and achieve financial independence. Jillian shares stories of real people who've embraced mini-retirements to design their dream lifestyles, challenging the status quo and offering a fresh perspective on gaining control of your financial future. If you're craving change or simply curious about the transformative power of mini-retirements, I hope this episode will leave you feeling inspired and ready to take the reins of your own life.

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About our Guest:
After starting with 55k in debt, Jillian became financially independent at 32. She and her husband have taken a dozen mini-retirements, adopted four kids, have two biological, lived abroad, traveled to 27 countries, and paid cash for their first home. They live in Montana by Glacier National Park, where they hike on the weekends. She's a writer, coach, speaker, podcaster, and drinker of hot tea. You can connect with her at retireoften.com

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TRANSCRIPT:

[00:00:00] Naseema McElroy: Hey, hey, my financially intentional people. I'm back from my vacation and couldn't be more thrilled Than to be joined by someone who I've admired from afar for so long Miss Jillian Johnsrud She is just an amazing person and I just Really selfishly wanted to have her on the podcast because I'm fascinated by her and she has an amazing story, but she also has an amazing platform called retire often she has her own podcast and she talks about retiring often, but you'll see, she just Fascinating person.

What a fascinating story that could teach you so many things. She's taught me so many things she doesn't even know, but I'll let you see for yourself. So Hey, Julian,

[00:00:46] Jillian Johnsrud: Oh, thanks for having me.

[00:00:48] Naseema McElroy: of course, like I said, I'm super excited to have you. Cause I just want to talk to you because I'm just fan girl over here, but it is a personal finance podcast.

So I just want to know I this is what I don't know is what was your initial introduction into the personal finance space

[00:01:08] Jillian Johnsrud: Two part, I guess.

[00:01:10] Naseema McElroy: Yes,

[00:01:11] Jillian Johnsrud: One, my interest in money actually started when I was probably in junior high.

My mom was in a really unhealthy relationship. And I came to her and I said, listen, this isn't good. This isn't healthy. This isn't safe. Like we have to leave. And I don't care. I don't care where we go.

I don't care what we do. I don't care where we live. But this isn't working. And she's a very practical woman and just said, listen, Julian, I can't afford to raise three kids on my own. So we don't have a choice. And I went upstairs and I just, just cried hot tears into my pillow. Because I felt so hopeless, but at the same time, I had this epiphany of oh, if we had more money, we would have some options here.

We would have some choices. Money gives us options and choices, and in that moment, I desperately wanted more options and more choices. I never wanted to feel stuck.

And so I just started squirreling money away, working, saving we, growing up, we didn't have a lot of money, so it was challenging.

I think anyone who grew up feeling poor might be able to relate in that when you feel poor, you really don't want to look poor. You really don't want that to be part of your identity.

And so there was this huge temptation for me of, I have this little bit of money, I could spend it so I don't look poor. And to ease that discomfort. But we, me and my husband, we never, had high earning careers. And as adults, we really had to grapple with this. We're not going to earn enough money to become rich.

And to look rich. It's one or the other. We don't make enough money for both. And so it was really prioritizing that, that freedom and that security over, the discomfort of maybe people's assumptions.

[00:03:14] Naseema McElroy: Wow. That is very interesting. And I think what's even more interesting is that you and your husband were on the same page because I find that, oftentimes one person might want to, for example, look rich and the other person just really wants to like actually build wealth and be rich.

And those two things are what happens in relationships and why people, there's financial infidelity and people, that's the number one people, number one reason why people break up and all of those kinds of things. It's great that you guys were on the same page.

[00:03:46] Jillian Johnsrud: And I don't know if we were on the same page when we met. Because my husband had a very different background. He had this really comfortable, cozy, middle class lifestyle where he had two professional working parents. And they went out to eat a lot. And, they didn't, his mom bought lots of clothes and had her nails done and there was like all of these small comforts which felt really normal to him.

And felt extravagantly extreme to me. And so we came in and, I thought, Oh my gosh, if we go to the dollar movie theater, And we like, sneak in our dollar candy from the dollar store this is a big thing. This is a big financial purchase. And from his perspective, we were being like, ultra frugal.

And

[00:04:35] Naseema McElroy: Let's

[00:04:35] Jillian Johnsrud: like our baseline line.

[00:04:37] Naseema McElroy: what's the problem?

[00:04:38] Jillian Johnsrud: Yeah, our baseline was super different. And so it was a lot of conversations about why is this important to me? What am I, what's this vision of the life I want us to have? And how do we financially get there? What's important to us? What do we care about? Where do we want to go as a couple and eventually as a family?

So therefore what steps do we need to take to make that happen? We really had to recenter ourselves. It takes a lot to get onto the same page.

[00:05:08] Naseema McElroy: Yes, but do you work through that process which again is something that people just don't often do right? So you establish a framework to build and grow from within your relationship that eventually turned into You know some of the things that I believe that you share with others to do now. So from that point of being a kid To now transitioning into Your own relationship.

What are some of the things that you had to learn about money that has shaped how you deal with money now

[00:05:41] Jillian Johnsrud: I had to learn everything about money. I, we, we weren't... a family that shared finances. We had this culture of finances were something to avoid. They were something to hide from. It was like, try to create as much emotional distance from our money and what was happening from our money as possible was the vibe I was picking up.

And it was funny. So the second kind of. So the first financial lesson or like introduction to finance for me was, I was like 18, 19, Adam and I had just been married, and I was with a family member, I think we were walking through like a Christian bookstore or something, and I saw this little book about finances.

And it was very expensive. This was 20 years ago, and this book was like 18. Which, to me, especially with inflation, that's like a 40 book. It's a really, it was a huge amount of money. And, I had never read a personal finance book. I grew up before the internet. We lived in a small town.

There was no public library. I just didn't have access to this kind of information. And I remember I was just really struggling with, Ah, do I spend this much money? It seems like it could be really helpful. And this family member said, Oh, honey don't waste your money on that. So and so in the family can teach you everything you need to know about money. And in that moment, I thought, I know so and and there's no way in hell that's happening. They have never taught me a thing about money, and I instantly was like, Yes, I'm buying the book. This is my only shot.

[00:07:20] Naseema McElroy: We don't want to be like them that's not who we want to take advice from. No, thank you. I'll pass. Who, whatever is in this book has to be better. That is hilarious. That is hilarious. So did you end up like learning anything from that book that you bought?

[00:07:37] Jillian Johnsrud: know, it was a really basic introduction to budgeting, emergency fund, starting to invest, but it got me curious. And so I started going to the library. We moved to D. C. It was my husband's first duty assignment with the military. So there was a big public library. And I started checking out I read a book every week.

And I just read about all these different topics. And I read all these different financial books. And, we started paying off our debt. We started with 55, 000 of debt. And we started paying all of that off. I know, it was like... Well, part of this was on my husband. So when I met him, he had 35, 000 of student loans.

And because he was used to this very middle class lifestyle, but was making no money, he also had 10, 000 of credit card debt. Because there again, he thought, I'm not going to Applebee's, I'm going to Jack in the Box. I'm making good financial choices here. Despite the fact he didn't have the money to go to Jack in the Box. And unbeknownst to me at the time, I actually had 10, 000 in medical debt from when I was in high school. It was in my name, I thought had been paid off, it had not been paid off, and it was a couple years in that I got a letter from a creditor like, oh by the way, you owe us 10 grand. Which was,

[00:09:02] Naseema McElroy: I don't, wait, wait, I don't understand that. How can a minor. Accumulate debt. Accumulate debt.

[00:09:09] Jillian Johnsrud: I just turned 18. Middle... So my birthday is January 3rd, so middle of my senior year. I checked into the hospital, like... I don't know, January 10th signed myself in, signed all of the paperwork and that was mine. That, that was my debt I found out about that a few years in and it was like super discouraging to be like, oh, I thought, we're trying to do everything right, we're making good progress, and then life is surprise!

You get a setback.

[00:09:40] Naseema McElroy: oh, my God, I definitely want to I'm going to talk about you paying off the 55, 000 dollars in debt, but I just want to put in there as far as medical debt coming from somebody who used to forgive medical debt as a hospital administrator. Okay that's 1 of the things that really gets people in a pickle. Instead of paying off that 10, 000 and I don't even know how you paid it off, at that point you could have went to the hospital and been like, you know what, I was 18, I had just turned 18 can you just forgive this debt? And usually they have, if they're a nonprofit or anything, or a religious hospital, they usually have some kind of charity fund that they'll just pull from.

So a lot of people are just so scared to ask or the debt is so intimidating, they'll just forget about it. But that's one way to deal with it.

But you did pay off the 55, 000 of

[00:10:29] Jillian Johnsrud: we did negotiate this a lot cause I, I called the hospital and I was like, I never got a bill. I, this is the first time, and this is four years later, I never, no one called, no one sent anything and they were like, well, now it's with the collector and so there's nothing we can do.

I'm like, call them up, take it back, make it yours again,

[00:10:48] Naseema McElroy: yes

[00:10:49] Jillian Johnsrud: I'm not sure if there would have been this like, scholarship fund, but now it's too late and I'm like, no, no, no, we, we need some options. So we did work out a payment plan where they forgave half of it if we paid like 2, 000 up front and then 500 a month payment.

So we were able to knock it down to 5, 000, but I was kind of like, this is a little janky. Because I'm in high school and you never send a bill for it four years later.

[00:11:15] Naseema McElroy: imagine how many people get caught up like that and it ruins them financially.

Like you starting off your life with that debt and it just followed you, so that's crazy. But at least you paid that off. And then, so you were reading these financial books and you paid off all this debt.

Like what what did that look like?

The rest of it,

[00:11:37] Jillian Johnsrud: yeah, one of the big things was my husband decided to join the military. Because in exchange for that, they would pay off that debt over three years. They would pay off his student loans.

[00:11:48] Naseema McElroy: Mm.

[00:11:49] Jillian Johnsrud: And the little bonus he got, I think it was seven or eight thousand. Plus, the six months that he was away training, all of the income from that, like we could use that to pay off the ten grand in credit card debt.

You know what, it's funny, I've been reflecting on it a lot this week. There's a lot of things in my life and in my story that when you zoom out, and in retrospect, look impressive or successful or inspiring. Let me tell you, in the moment, nobody thought that. Nobody said that. Everyone thought like we were trading our souls to the devil for debt payment relief.

Because I told all our friends. Because all of our friends had student loan debt. I was like, guys, here's a great opportunity. You could do this. And they're like, pass? No thank you. And it's funny now. Because I can look back and say, all these things were super helpful, and people are like, yeah, that's amazing.

In the moment, nobody thought that. They thought it was lame, they thought it was boring, they thought it was hard. It did not look glamorous.

[00:12:57] Naseema McElroy: Yeah, and I think that's what a lot of people think, especially like if you just took away everything else that you've accomplished. They're like, Oh, I paid off, 55, 000 in a couple of years. They're like, Oh my God, that's amazing. How did you have the foresight to do it? You're like. I was in the middle of this struggling in the back end.

That's the same thing with me. I'm like,

I was just doing it. And then in the back end is when I looked and I was like, oh, I really did do that. That was really smart and I can probably break it down to you. But let me tell you, going through it, it did not seem like either. I was going to hit this goal, or it just didn't feel like I was doing this amazing thing.

[00:13:34] Jillian Johnsrud: Yeah. Yeah. There, there is no affirmation. There is no encouragement in the beginning especially but even in the middle of the journey and like I say that to encourage people if you're like pushing through and figuring stuff out and nobody around you gets what you're doing or why you're doing it and they don't see the result yet because you don't have the result yet it the wrong thing it just means like they don't have the vision that you have for what you want your life to be you And that's fine.

That vision wasn't given to them. That vision wasn't given to you. It's yours to work it out. But it can be tough. It can be tough at first when you don't have the results to show off yet.

[00:14:13] Naseema McElroy: Right. Right. I love it. I love it.

So let's talk about this concept of retiring often. What exactly does that mean to you?

[00:14:25] Jillian Johnsrud: Yeah, when we first started this journey, we had all this debt and neither my husband or I decided to go into high earning professions. Just For a lot of reasons a lot of kind of old stories that I had internalized of, if I wanted to be in a helping profession, you were always going to be poor.

You were always going to be broke. You can make money or you can be a good person and help people, but you can't do both. And growing up I didn't, I mean I still don't, I didn't have like crazy self esteem in that I thought I was like the best or the brightest or the most successful, like I wasn't like, yes I'm destined to be a millionaire.

I was like, I'm just gonna try to pay the bills. That's my goal in life is to not drown in debt and maybe have an emergency fund. So when we started, my initial like super ambitious goal was maybe we can be financially independent and able to retire when we're like 60.

I had seen my husband's parents in their 60s, their health had sharply declined.

They weren't able to keep working and they weren't quite financially prepared for retirement yet. And it was like a big struggle. And I was like, man, I don't want to do that. So let's try to hit five by 60. Never ended up doing it by 32, 0% chance. If I went back in time, I could even convince my own self that that was a possibility.

Thank you. I grew up in this vibe where hope is dangerous. Hope is a risk. Hope is for the foolish. You have to be practical. My alternative, I wasn't going to retire early. We're not going to make a lot of money, but we're always going to be like, borderline poor in my head. Was... If we don't want to miss out on the best that life has to offer, if we don't want to miss out on these like amazing moments and opportunities, we're going to have to do many retirements. We're going to have to find a month or two months or three months like, because in my mind we're never going to get there fast, but I can't postpone everything until I'm 60 either.

So this idea of retiring often what if we could just do this? Frequently, what if we could take these little career breaks to really focus on the stuff that we care about? And that seemed much more possible and realistic.

[00:16:47] Naseema McElroy: I mean, was that modeled for you in some kind of way or did that was just what made sense for you at that time?

[00:16:54] Jillian Johnsrud: You know do. I was reading the Old Testament when I was 19.

That's all the cool kids are.

[00:17:01] Naseema McElroy: whole book. Yeah.

[00:17:04] Jillian Johnsrud: Just working my way through. But I came idea of a sabbatical And every seven years, the Jews would take a year off. And I'm like, that's brilliant. And so I go to my husband and he was like, oh, honey I don't, I Actually, I'm not 100% sure they ever did that. It was like a cool idea, but I don't, know if it happened. And I was like, no, but what if, what if we just a little bit more? And what if, we do these things? What if we could take a year off every or half a year or something?

And he had all these legitimate questions of how that would happen. And I had none of the answers at that point. But I just, I was always in the but maybe. What if we could. What if we just kind of start direction and we happens? And so that was, it was, probably like three months got married.

A real early conversation. But it set us, set us on

[00:17:56] Naseema McElroy: Wow, I love that and I love that it came from the Bible because, like everybody just reads it and up like with these financial concepts yes, you got married, were you able to take your first mini retirement?

[00:18:10] Jillian Johnsrud: So the first one, I would say, was Four years in, maybe. We, at that off our debt. had, we had saved our emergency fund. We were just starting to invest. So we were, like, really early in our financial journey. We just kind of, we were kind of in that head water. Navigating now, wealth building side. And it was actually, unplanned mini retirement. There are planned mini retirements. And then there's ones that life kind of offers up. and this, for me, form of a miscarriage.

[00:18:49] Naseema McElroy: Hmm.

[00:18:50] Jillian Johnsrud: some people it's like a blip, and they're like, Oh, that's sad, and we'll try again. It... imploded my internal life because I That was a one trick pony and my trick was I won't feel this And I won't acknowledge this pain, and I won't acknowledge trauma, I'll just push it down and I'll move past. And that trick had served me really well throughout my childhood, and my early 20s, and then this happened and the trick didn't work, and a whole lifetime of trauma and pain poured out of me.

And my employer at the time was like, we do not know what to do with this girl, she is a mess. She can not pull it together. And so they said, we'll pay for a month off. Just leave. Go away, figure this crap out. Come back, , come back fixed. Please, please go and come back to work as like a normal human being. And that's what I did. Me and my best friend, we got in our, my Honda Civic and we took a road trip from D. C. to Seattle and back for a month. We stayed with friends and family and in national parks and state parks and tents and frozen ground and... Hurricane kind of wind we did the whole thing, and it was, it was 100% what I I just needed.

that time to feel my feelings, instead of avoid my feelings, and to process that, yeah sometimes, sometimes even when you're trying your best.

[00:20:31] Naseema McElroy: Wow, it's amazing that you took that time off. So did you only take that month and then went back to work or did you take

[00:20:37] Jillian Johnsrud: Yep.

[00:20:38] Naseema McElroy: Okay.

[00:20:38] Jillian Johnsrud: But it, it it reaffirmed Yeah, he also was like, I don't know how to help this at all. Totally out of his depth. But it of, oh,

many retirements can be life changing. They can be transformative. They can give to this time and this space for personal growth, for healing.

And that change continues to unfold because you're on a new trajectory now. And, you can can do them for a lot of different reasons, they can have a lot of different focuses, you can accomplish a whole bunch of different kinds of things, versus 65. Retire then and hope it all works

out.

[00:21:21] Naseema McElroy: Do you do you even with retirements built in? Do you have this goal where you're just like, that's the end point. I'm not stopping. I'm just a hard stop from when I'm not going to work period. Do you have that retirement age now?

[00:21:34] Jillian Johnsrud: No, my... When we became 32, it was... So I think the kind of cultural narrative and expectation is... How much can you handle? How much of this work burden can you carry and keep moving forward and hope that it doesn't hurt your personal life? My perspective in what could I add in? What professional things could I include that would improve or benefit my personal life? Is there an amount or a type work that actually improves me, my mental health, my physical health across the board

so

kind of my, my model and my inspiration is I want to be like Betty White. I just want to do the work I love and I want to do it in the amount that works for me and the type that works for me but like forever. I want to be like a 95 year old rock star where people have appreciated my work for 70 years, and I still get to show up and do cool things with cool people. Yeah, yeah.

[00:22:52] Naseema McElroy: Well, I, I think that's amazing and people ask me that too. Even though I haven't hit a I don't necessarily look at it as a point of like that destination I'm going So I'm a labor and nurse. I love what I do.

No matter what of the things that I do on the side I love going in miracle of life every day.

Right? And so I'm just like, as long as I have the capacity to retire often,

I don't ever think that I'll. Fire, you Wanted to felt the same way because that's exactly how I feel too. If you build a life career that you're passionate about

[00:23:30] Jillian Johnsrud: Mm

[00:23:30] Naseema McElroy: you don't have to

Retire from that, right?

So I love that but I kind of want to back up a little bit because you said 32 you guys reached fire And was that like your traditional? 25 times your amount in 20 times I mean, your annual expenses savings and, investment. was it the traditional you hit that higher number 32.

[00:23:55] Jillian Johnsrud: Yes

and no. We had kind of a three leg stool. Know in that all of our assets weren't in like a

401k. We had, yeah. from our investments to cover all of our bills indefinitely. But that was a mix of retirement accounts, brokerage accounts, cash. We had two rental properties at that time, which were, so the investments were about 30 percent.

The retirement accounts were about 30 percent. And my husband was medically retired from the military, and so that covered our health insurance and about 30 percent. And it wasn't actually we didn't have this massive net we had pretty much a guaranteed like 3, 500 a month income, but our health insurance was paid for, we didn't have any card debts, we didn't have any student loans, we had paid cash for our house, we had fixed up our house we had a little camper, we have five bucks, a thousand bucks a month on food, like that's a big chunk.

But there expenses, like we had a cheap cell phone plan, we had a couple hundred bucks a month of bills. So we, and we didn't, when we hit five, we decided to take a year long mini retirement, both of us together, which was the first time we had done that. In our journey before, we had never both been off for a significant amount of time. But I wasn't like, forever. I said, we need a year off. And then, you know what, I know we have enough money for a year off. And then we'll see. I never, I to go back to work. And I know that a lot of people feel of different reasons.

But there were a lot of jobs we liked. There was a lot of work that we enjoyed. And, honestly, we weren't making a lot of money. In some ways, it's a that there was a whole bunch of different kinds of jobs that could replace the income we were making before. Because we weren't making that much.

Honestly, if I went to go work at a garden love plants. That would have been enough. If I would've worked at coffee shop That would've been enough. I cleaned houses and been self employed, that would've been enough. There was a whole I wasn't worried about know we needed a year off bad. So we would take that year off, from there.

[00:26:01] Naseema McElroy: And a lot of people see this story like, okay, but it's just like you and your husband, you guys were making a dual income, but you're doing this with five kids at this point I just want people to understand. possible, because a lot of people make excuses like, Oh, well, I couldn't do that because of X, Y, and Z.

No, you can, you do it. And oftentimes we do it in spite of all these things, not, because we it because So I love that. And I like to mention that because it did kind of sound like it was just you for a little, no, there's kids in the mix here.

[00:26:38] Jillian Johnsrud: group of kids here. Oof. to become financially independent. One, it's like my trauma background. One was my mental health. But the other one is we wanted to we wanted to be able to adopt kids with special needs and they take a whole crap load of work and time and energy we wanted to be able to have the to to, show up in that way.

And it's weird, weird. I... So happy for people can have this perfect one hour morning routine and this fully optimized life and diet and practice and live keto and just do all these amazing cool things. But here's the deal, we're not playing the same game. We are playing vastly different games. They're playing like high school tennis. I'm playing the Wimbledon over here. I'm trying to get five kids out of the house in the morning when none of them can find their shoes.

[00:27:33] Naseema McElroy: Listen,

[00:27:34] Jillian Johnsrud: take my kids

shoeless.

[00:27:35] Naseema McElroy: that are there, okay?

[00:27:38] Jillian Johnsrud: They leave them everywhere! Members that are terminally ill, I've got family members that are struggling with mental health and addiction, and we have a community we're trying we got stuff going and so don't, you can do, do it, and do it the best you can, but don't be discouraged that you're... You're not competing with someone who has no kids, and no physical limitations, and no mental limitations, and no family obligations, they're playing high school tennis. in the real world here. and yeah, they're rocking it, they're doing awesome, great, but they're playing an easier game.

[00:28:13] Naseema McElroy: Way,

[00:28:14] Jillian Johnsrud: Don't feel bad that And, and don't feel like nothing for you. If I can't do it that way, I get nothing. No!

We just, it's gonna look a little different. And it might take a little longer. But we'll, we can be successful. In whatever successful looks like for

us.

[00:28:31] Naseema McElroy: Exactly. And that's it right there. Like how you define success.

And I just want to kind of like, what did you do? Did you travel the world? Or were you I'm just doing everyday things to go to work?

[00:28:43] Jillian Johnsrud: Well, this months.

[00:28:44] Naseema McElroy: Yay.

[00:28:45] Jillian Johnsrud: We spent a lot of time on the beach. We have a camper. My because he's a retired military, he gets we get base access. We get to stay military base campgrounds. Which are a little bit more affordable. But man, the Marines, the Navy, the Coast

Guard, they got some nice real estate. They got

a lot of beachfront real estate.

[00:29:04] Naseema McElroy: Especially in California,

[00:29:05] Jillian Johnsrud: Huh. Yep, spent six months in Southern California with tires on the sand. It was really nice.

[00:29:13] Naseema McElroy: Wow.

[00:29:14] Jillian Johnsrud: but it's Like there are some really cool things When you zoom out but like day to day It's still life Like I'm still trying to feed children a dozen times a day and like of course none of them eat the same things And the thing they last week they don't like this

way

[00:29:34] Naseema McElroy: Never. You go to buy the Costco pack of the thing they say that they love and they're over it by the time it hits the pantry. Okay.

[00:29:41] Jillian Johnsrud: Yeah, my seven year old was like obsessed with instant oatmeal. It was like all he would eat for like months on end. And then one morning he was like, I hate that. And I was like, what are you talking about? You loved it. He was like, my taste buds were just confused. They thought they liked it, but they really didn't.

And I was like, child, what

[00:30:08] Naseema McElroy: I'm sure my kids and your kids will get along great. Yes,

[00:30:11] Jillian Johnsrud: Yeah. And so it's a lot of real life stuff too. You zoom out, there's, there's cool things and there's things I really appreciate, but when you zoom in I was on the, I was night and I was like, shit is real over here.

Like we are going through some stuff. I'm like, I feel like I can't air it all online. But behind the scenes, to figure some stuff out. And, the great thing with independence though, is that we do have the resources, and the time, and the space. People with People with mental health challenges my kiddos with special needs, physical needs and like, all the stuff that's happening I, we could handle such a difficult life in a way if we were also both working 60 hours a week. That in my mind does not compute.

[00:31:05] Naseema McElroy: Right. Right. But it's just okay, well, it was a cart before horse. I mean, did you have, before you said this lifestyle or it was just kind of a product of the lifestyle.

[00:31:16] Jillian Johnsrud: I think you up however much you can show up. And if you're in that season of life where you're working 60 hours a week, you might not get to be that person who volunteers in your kid's kindergarten classroom. You might not get to be the sibling who helps your mom get to the doctor's appointment.

You might not get to show up in all ways that you want just yet. But there again, with, with many retirements you might be or for two months and you can kind of lean into those seasons of when either we really want to be there or you know you're needed. I have a lot of their parents got really ill and they took three months off and they had the financial wherewithal to take three months off and to be there and to really support like they wanted to be able to.

And it's okay that if you're not awesome all the time I'm not awesome all Sometimes my husband gets all five kids up in the morning and he gets them dressed and ready and to school and he drops them all off and I lay in bed till eight in the morning and then I wake up and I scroll Instagram for 20 minutes.

Like some mornings that's what I have to offer.

[00:32:29] Naseema McElroy: yes, yes, you gotta, it's not gonna look like Instagram it's not perfect does not like that is not like that. So I love it. I really, I really love it. But I just want to like, as far as like many retirements for you family, is it like, I mean, the family, you and your like, how does that, what does that look like?

Because for me I'm like, Oh, I'm definitely a mini retirement for me because I have never taken this amount of time off in my life. I have had to go back to work weeks with my previous 2 kids and I, I'm going on, 4 months work. So this is a really long time for me.

But it's maternity leave, but it is also retirement for me. I'm claiming, but I'm also still doing work. I'm still podcasting. I'm still, doing my personal finance I'm just not being a labor and delivery

[00:33:21] Jillian Johnsrud: hmm.

[00:33:21] Naseema McElroy: right now. Right? So that to me is

enough to call a retirement. Does many retirements you look like shutting off all work or are you doing?

Some of the things that you were doing. You're just not counting on a full time, like paycheck.

[00:33:37] Jillian Johnsrud: Oh, I never work full time. Let's be super clear about that. That's not happening anymore. Everyone has been different. Sometimes we've stepped away from our 9 to 5. Some, we took a lot of them in jobs, which can be super advantageous, not only because it doesn't really disrupt, you don't have to do all that negotiating, but sometimes when you...

Find the next job. The pay bump is so significant that it covers all the cost of that mini retirement and it sets you up on a lifetime trajectory of higher earning. So sometimes mini retirements like pay for themselves ten times over by just be willing to take that break, regroup, refocus, and come back strong.

And now it's, it's kind with being self employed. we did when I took, of, I called it and that trip was part of that. Because I was just tired. It was the pandemic out. We moved houses during that we did live in renovation, and I wrote a book. All at the same time. I know, it was like, I don't know what I, I don't know how I thought all these things belonged together, but I did at the time. After the book was published and I promoted it and all that, I was like, yeah, I need, at first I thought I needed three months off and at the end of three months I was like, nope, not ready yet. But because I'm a business I normally, I would say before that I worked like 15, 20, 25 hours a week was probably like butt in chair, like actually focusing on something. And so during said, you know what, five hours a week. That's what I have, because there again, that's the amount that is all benefit and no downside for me. That's the amount that gives me an outlet, makes me feel creative, it gives me energy, and yet it doesn't cost me anything in my personal life. Cause it's in real nice. And so sometimes when you're self employed and mid retirement isn't 100% you're off the grid, sometimes it's five hours a week.

Sometimes it's being available for a Friday meeting or being available for email for 20 minutes every day. You don't have to blow built in order to take this time away. And even when I work with people on negotiations with their employer, Sometimes there's one sticking point, there's thing that doesn't make it seem feasible for them to walk away.

And if that one thing isn't a huge cost to you, it's okay to compromise on it. I had one client who was of an accountant, bookkeeper and they could hire a temp to cover almost all of her work. The only thing a temp really couldn't do was end of month books. And that took her about six hours.

And she was like, you know what? We're going to be traveling a lot. We're going to be doing a lot of stuff locally. It's summer. She went somewhere with her kids. She was like, I can come in. I can come in for six hours at the end of the month, one day. That doesn't, that doesn't deter or anything from my mini retirement.

And if that's my compromise, like cool, sign me up. That's totally fine. And so it'll look different There are times when I totally checked out and was off the grid. But you don't have to I say a mini retirement. My personal definition is anytime you take a month or longer away from your traditional employment to focus on something that matters to

you. And so this, in a mini retirement, you might start a side business. You might explore a hobby. Once somewhere, I totally landscaped my backyard. If you would have looked at my time and budget, you would have been like, That girl is a landscaper.

I had the

[00:37:11] Naseema McElroy: And that is a full

If

[00:37:12] Jillian Johnsrud: It was hard labor. I was, that was not a beach, not a beach.

But we've taken these many retirements to buy rental properties, to renovate properties we've done things a financial cost, but we've also done things that like, moved us ahead financially as well. Thank you. And for some people, renovating a property might not sound like the mini retirement you need right now.

You're like, I need the beach one, not the renovation one. But sometimes it's about finding that balance. One of our month long took a month off of work. He was working this really stressful job. He was doing case management for kids in a group home with severe needs.

And, know, negotiating with him. First and social workers, and therapists, and management people, and it all urgent. It all felt life or death. It was constantly changing and evolving. It was constant chaos. So to paint a wall that just stays painted for a day was, like, a mental and emotional vacation from the high stakes.

Work that he was doing and and a year later he would come back and he's oh still there The paint is still there It hasn't blown up when I like, left for a day

[00:38:28] Naseema McElroy: Yes. So it's just I, I'm creating this differentiations in my mind of like many retirements and, working, but it lines are still kind of blurred because. It doesn't necessarily mean that you and your husband are off at the same amount of time. It doesn't necessarily mean that you're doing no work.

Or when you're working, it doesn't necessarily mean that you're working full time. It's really living life by design because you're at that place financially where you have the option to, right? Like money just means options, right? And so you're able to define a life you don't have to retire from.

And so it's incredible because I think it's easy for people to think in like black and white, like either you're working or you're retired, but it's not. It's, it's, it's. It's And it's all good because these are things that you are doing with intention. So I just, I really love it, but it also makes it more tangible because I feel like when people are like, okay, well, I have to get to this certain point and then I can do X, Y, and Z.

But you're like, no, You can get here, come in one day a week, and still meet those things, still do the things that you are aspiring to do personally that make you feel good. And I think it frees up a lot of people from feeling like they're in this rat race. And that's the thing that a lot of people are escaping.

Like when they, they're saying they're trying to escape nine to five, or they're looking towards entrepreneurship for a way, or they're setting themselves for either like people in the fire community, like this early retirement thing. They're like, I'm just tired of time for money and I just don't want to do that.

Well, it just, it just brings the ship closer to shore and no, listen, you can those things that you hate doing, still do those things that you are doing that do help income, but your, your life is just so much more fulfilled. And so I just love this conversation because it just opens up a world of possibility, even for me, but I know a lot of people were just like, Oh, okay.

That's doable. I could do do it sooner than I think I can even probably do it tomorrow if I wanted to.

[00:40:50] Jillian Johnsrud: Yeah, and a lot of people need to do it tomorrow

like

The burnout is so prevalent, especially in the U. S. and especially a couple lot of people still haven't fully recovered we're still tired, and it's cause I, I kind of started in financial content space, the fire but was, what was always odd is that You save this money with an intention of freedom, of choices, of security, of options, of living your values.

And yet it's that same amount of money that then dictates you don't get to do any of those things.

That same amount of money, you saved, you saved 100, 000 to give you freedom and options and choices and then that 100, 000 says, I'm not enough. You get no You get no freedom. You get no options.

Cause I'm the one who gets to dictate your life now. My little spreadsheet gets, gets to rule over what you can and can't do. And I'm like, as long as you're spending things with the intention you gave it.

[00:41:53] Naseema McElroy: Yeah.

[00:41:54] Jillian Johnsrud: know, if you said, I want to save this money and I want to be in a better financial spot, to have more time with my family, to have more time with my kids.

If that was the intention you put that money in there for, let that money do the job that you gave it to do. Let it fulfill its life's because its job wasn't to To say, actually, you, you're not, you're not far enough along. You don't get to have any of the things that are important to you.

Is just like a really weird framework for

me.

[00:42:24] Naseema McElroy: I just think it's, it's conditioning, right? It's even know, we up on this path fire, we're still like this capitalistic system. And it's just like work grind, like you're defined by what you do. And even now, like every day, somebody is like, when are you going back to work?

I'm like, I don't know. I guess when I feel like it.

[00:42:45] Jillian Johnsrud: Yeah.

[00:42:47] Naseema McElroy: And like I kind of have to but like for people they can't they're like wait You have to have a date. I'm like Not really and before I can that right It's just a mindset shift that we all kind of have to go through

[00:43:04] Jillian Johnsrud: think it's trusting yourself. Like when you've given yourself these options and this freedom, because you've made good financial choices, just say, I trust myself. being able to know what I'm thinking and and I'll know when it feels right. I know, I'll know when my body's ready.

I'll know when my energy is ready. But so much of the world says, don't trust yourself, trust us. We'll figure it out for you. And I'm like, actually I don't, I don't know if you can. That's cute

[00:43:32] Naseema McElroy: Where were they? Where were they when I was having this emotional breakdown? Like where were they when my baby was screaming in the middle of the night? I don't have it. I'm not getting any sleep. And so my brain is not functioning properly. No, I don't think so. I can't. But yes, a lot of That's just how society is set up. It's kind of, how raised and, we have to shift those things, I want to talk, I want to, I want you to share with the audience, like how you work with your clients what kind of services you talk about your podcast and how people can get in contact with you.

[00:44:07] Jillian Johnsrud: Yeah. My coaching work is, is, interesting in that like I'm not like a traditional financial planner. I don't have, okay, here's the eight money steps you have to go through and we'll look at your insurance and we'll look at your mutual funds and I don't do any of that. My goal to get to your ideal lifestyle as close as we can get.

As Quickly as we can get there! It's looking at where you want to go? What is actually really important to you, and that is for all pre onboarding homework, and then we show up and we say, well what's the challenge? What things are you being awesome Because usually, if there are 10 things we need They're awesome at seven of them, but these one or two missing pieces, so we focus all of our time on what's the challenge, and what are small steps you can taking to make progress, to gain some momentum, because usually people are just stuck.

It's not that they're not making great progress, it's that they can't decide between one thing or another, or they're not sure, and so they're not moving at all in this one area. So figuring out what's causing that, and how do we, how do take steps to move out of that? And it's so cool because with a bit of accountability, with a little bit of a plan, with some clear action steps, people make progress.

You just make progress it's not even so much about what we accomplish in this time frame, but people come back to me a year, two years, five years later and say, This started a whole new trajectory for me. And now I'm in an entirely different place than I ever thought I could be because we shifted that angle.

And so it's fun, fun, for me. It's really get to know people. Get to witness this unfold in front of me. And then my is mini retirement stories. It's just people who are planning one or in the middle of one who finished one, people who have done multiple mini retirements and what was the What were the logistics? How did you negotiate this time off? How did you save this money? How much did this cost? Where did you go? What did you do? Like, how was it transformational? Where did you end up now because you took that mini retirement eight years ago?

And so I tried, I find a really Diverse collection of stories, people of all different age groups in all different parts of their financial journeys, people from all over the world, different, different cultural expectations different kind of money mindsets, different professions and, and show people. How it could be possible. Cause it's easy for me. I know a lot stories. Like I've heard hundreds of them. And so when someone says I would like to do one, but here's why I can't in my mind, I'm like, okay, so I know 12 people that were in the exact same and I know how they worked through that.

So it seems super possible. So I'm hoping to kind of curate all of these stories. So they'll, see how someone else in their situation figured it

out.

[00:47:03] Naseema McElroy: I love that. I'm like so intrigued by those stories, I really feel like, we're sold this bill of That's not necessarily true. And until we surround ourselves with people who. Think differently or have done things differently. We can't imagine it for ourselves.

And yes, I'm looking forward to hearing all of those stories. So I'll definitely be checking out the podcast, but how can people access your coaching services and the

[00:47:28] Jillian Johnsrud: Yeah, if you go to retireofton. com, all of my information is there, and I have If you do slash mini, retirement kind of how you could map one Every decade just like what are all the basic finances or if you go slash intentional I have a free 10 day course that has a little video and worksheet every day That's just like that life planning stuff like helping you sort out actually Yeah, this is really important or I do need to focus on this more or in this season like here's what my priority should be And usually once you have that kind of clarity, the next step makes more sense and you feel a little bit more confident to take

that next step.

[00:48:09] Naseema McElroy: And I think that's what it is all about, right? Just kind of getting out of that fog and taking that

[00:48:13] Jillian Johnsrud: Mm

hmm. Yeah.

[00:48:18] Naseema McElroy: I love that you have those practical tools that people can use. And I'll definitely link them in the show notes. I've had such an amazing time talking to you.

I just, like I said, I'm fascinated by you. And now I. No people can see why for themselves, but make sure you stay connected with Jillian. She has some amazing resources, sharing amazing stories, and Jess is overall an amazing person. So thank you so much Jillian for your time.

[00:48:44] Jillian Johnsrud: Yeah, thanks so much for having me.

Hey there I’m Naseema

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