Navigating Divorce as a New Beginning - Episode 85
Today, we are joined by Regina McCann Hess, a financial expert who helps women navigate their finances, especially during divorce. Regina shares her journey from being a critical care nurse to a financial advisor and how she found her niche in helping women manage their money. We discuss the unique financial challenges women face, like earning less than men and stepping out of the workforce for caregiving. Regina explains how divorce, although tough, can be an opportunity for a fresh start. We also dive into the importance of teaching kids about investing and the power of being part of financial conversations. Tune in to learn how to empower yourself financially, whether single, married, or going through a divorce.
About our guest:
Regina McCann Hess is a CFP, Certified Divorce Financial Analyst, and Author of "Super Woman Wealth: How To Become Your Own Financial Hero." With more than two decades of financial planning experience behind her, Regina has dedicated her career to empowering professional women to take an active role in their finances - nurturing their money, protecting their wealth and taking control of their financial future. Understanding women's unique relationships with money, Regina offers practical advice on becoming more comfortable with financial planning and management. As a Certified Divorce Financial Analyst® professional, Regina works together with clients and attorneys to guide them through the financial complexities of the divorce process aiming to create a stable economic future and preventing long-term regret with financial decisions made during the divorce process.
A media favorite, Regina has been featured on The Schwab Network, Forbes New Money, Good Day DC, Fox 29 Philadelphia, MindBodyGreen, Yahoo! Finance and more!
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TRANSCRIPT:
Naseema: [00:00:00] What's up, my financially intentional people. I am so glad to be back with you and to be joined by Regina McCann Hess. And she is a financial expert in a couple of areas, but in particular, when it comes to personal finance, as it pertains to women and divorce, so we're going to have some great conversations because, I, of course, am a woman, I identify as a woman and I have been divorced actually a couple times and I have been, I am in this financial position in spite of the things that I've been through and I know that it causes a lot of my angst in women.
A lot of women look at situations What are relationship splits as a financial detriment. And as it can be, I like how Regina puts it. It's can be also an opportunity. So I want to talk about all that, but first Regina, [00:01:00] welcome. And I want to dive into like your background and how you got into the finance space and then how you started working in this particular niche.
Regina McCann Hess: Oh, wow. Thank you so much for having me. I am so excited to be here. I've listened to your podcast for so long and I'm like, Oh, I finally got here. So excited. Oh
Naseema: Thank you.
Regina McCann Hess: goodness. And so how did I come into this field? So a long story short is when I graduated college, I actually graduated with a nursing degree.
Naseema: What
Regina McCann Hess: of mine, yes, yes, I know it's crazy. And I was a critical care nurse for several years and I did, I went back and took business classes because when I graduated, a friend of my family, a friend of mine had wanted to teach me about the stock market, I grew up, we were poor is that is foreign.
And obviously I have to worry about like eating, drinking and living. So that is like for rich people. [00:02:00] And so he had his, way about him and he's like, all right, so your graduation present is going to be a stock, but you have to pick it out. You have to tell me why you had to do the research.
You have to tell me why you think it's a good company. Like he gave me all sorts of, attachments to it. So I was like, okay, I'll do it. And of course he created a monster. I actually loved it. And I was just like, Oh my goodness, this is actually really cool. So I worked as a critical care nurse and I went back and took the business classes just as a total wow, this is really cool.
I'm curious about it. Never realizing I was going to change careers. And then, five, seven years later, I decided, you know what, I'm going to give it a chance. I'm always going to have my nursing degree to fall back on, but I'm going to go check it out. And so I started my working world.
taking care of people's physical health. And now I take care of their financial health.
Naseema: I love it. we [00:03:00] have so many intersections, but I wanna know what that stock was that you picked
Regina McCann Hess: I'm not recommending it, but it, it was a long time ago. It was Bristol Myers Squibb.
Naseema: Oh.
Regina McCann Hess: stayed in the healthcare arena with stuff that I understood so that I would have a better chance of understanding anything that was, That they were talking about in these research articles. So it's a great way to teach young people coming into investing about what are you interested in?
what things do you use on a daily basis? So that's how I talk to younger people about getting started investing.
Naseema: That is exactly what I do for my kids. So my kids, my thing is, if they're old enough to recognize a McDonald's sign or a Starbucks sign or a Tesla symbol, they're old enough to invest. And so I'm like, is this something that you're interested in? So they have money in their custodial brokerage accounts to invest in those things.
And then I gamify it to see who has the highest [00:04:00] returns among the stocks that they pick so that they get interested in, the stock market early, but also it teaches them to not only be consumers, but to be. Owners. And so these are the companies, if you're going to be shopping here, you should own some of that.
You should have a stake in this. And yeah, I love that. That's what you teach. Cause that's how I present investing to my kids at an early age in a way that they can understand. And my kids are the, not the one year old obviously, but one year old, a five year old and a 10 year old.
Regina McCann Hess: Awesome. I love that. Oh my goodness. I love it. I love it.
Naseema: So now you're in the finance space and you help women with their finances, because as we know, women have unique financial challenges. Let's talk about some of those things that and why is super important for women to be invested in the stay invested.
Regina McCann Hess: I think we were talking offline before we hit record, I mentioned that women have an uphill battle. There's a couple of reasons. [00:05:00] Obviously, one of the biggest reasons is we get paid less. We get 82 cents on the dollar that the men make on average. And I will tell you, when I came into this industry about 28 years ago, it was 82 cents.
On the dollar. So
Naseema: So we have a very big strides.
Regina McCann Hess: has not made a dent. No, nothing. It has not moved at all. So you have that. Then in addition to that, on average, women step out of the workforce for 12 years for caregiving, whether or not that's for raising their kids and then going back to work and then stepping out again to take care of their aging parents.
But we are the caretakers. We are the ones who start. Stay at home and take care of the family. And that is great for family needs, but it crushes our financial situation for many, many reasons.
Naseema: Yes, yes, most definitely. I just recalculating all of my numbers since having a baby I [00:06:00] was, a year or 2 away from being close by, what that is you have enough in your retirement so that you don't have to contribute to your retirement account anymore. Therefore, you can divert those funds other places.
I was, like, a year or 2 away from having a baby. Nope!
Regina McCann Hess: No,
Naseema: We're going to go a couple of steps back and I love my baby. I don't regret it, but it is one of those things that something that I had to, consider. And now I'll probably have to work longer,
Regina McCann Hess: that's true. That's true. We do wind up having to work a little bit longer to make up for it. Plus we live five years longer than men. So we need even more money to retire on. And it's just like one of those, you picture the dust bowl, back in the cartoons where the dust bowl gets bigger and bigger, it's just that mounting force against us.
So we just got to overcome it and find a way to get around it.
Naseema: you not only talk about Financial challenges for women and how to overcome that. But you also talk about how to [00:07:00] overcome divorce and look at as divorce, as this opportunity, right? not to get married, to have the opportunity to get a divorce, but as, instead of looking at it as something that is going to be a total detriment to your life, which it is, but to look at the opportunities in it and when you frame.
That kind of mindset around it, it makes overcoming all the challenges that come with divorce a lot easier.
Regina McCann Hess: Right, and divorce is not a fun life event, right? It is the second most traumatic life transition that we could live through. And it's I told you, it is a head of losing a spouse through death because, and the reason for that is you're splitting friends, you're splitting assets. It's really a different experience and it's really tough to get through.
As and I've been through it with so many people the destruction that happens during that middle ground of trying to get to the other side is so [00:08:00] difficult. But then when I talk to these same people, Like a year or two after the divorce, they're like, Oh, thank God it's over.
And I am so much happier now that I can, focus on stuff that's important to me and, be, take care of me and take care of my family and not have, that type of person in my life. So it is looking through, what the fog to get to the other side is difficult. But once you are on the other side and you're living on the other side, many, many women say, okay, it was worth it.
Naseema: Oh my God. And I can tell you first, it is worth it. However, it was one of the most traumatic experiences of my life. And I often tell people like, I really feel like they should make you go through a divorce, like process to get married because people's true colors come out, like you really see how that person reacts [00:09:00] in stressful situations or situations that may not be favorable for them.
So I, the next best thing, obviously, and I don't want anybody to go through a divorce, but is to get a prenup and go through that process of sitting down with the numbers with coming up with a plan, like really, where do you see yourself and like any challenges that come up in that situation gives you a preview of things that don't happen in relationships.
Because, Financial issues are the leading cause of divorce. I, yeah, I think that, again, to say divorce is hard as heck, but in getting through it and understanding that there is light at the end of the tunnel, I think it's important to give women hope that, they will be okay.
And that's sometimes that's all that they need to hear and understand It, you will be okay through this process because it is crushing. It is soul crushing.
Regina McCann Hess: it is. It is. And, it doesn't, it's not for the faint of heart for sure. It is not[00:10:00]
Naseema: Yeah.
Regina McCann Hess: Making sure you have the right type of diverse professionals helping you makes a difference and mediation versus going through the course that can also be, an added benefit if it's possible.
Sure. And then if you do have to go, through the courts or having attorney versus attorney picking the right type of attorney, attorneys that are going to be more like, hey, let's compromise and let's sit at the table like everybody come to the table and everybody has to get something to make this compromise work.
Those are the ones that have the better long term outcomes. Then. The people who are just like, Oh, we're just going to fight this out in court. And guess what? Those people don't win. There's no winning in court. There really isn't.
Naseema: No, it's not. You guys know, better than this judge what you guys need in your lives. Why would you leave it in their hands? Like, why wouldn't you do everything to work together? And it sucks. Even in like child custody court it's horrific.
They even tell you like, you know what? The [00:11:00] judge will tell you, I'm not going to make the best decision for you. It's better for you to just go ahead and try to come to a decision because I'm going to just make a decision. And you guys are going to have to live with that. Like, why wouldn't you want to do that?
It drives me crazy. But I like that you said that there is no winning.
Regina McCann Hess: No, there isn't. And not only that, you have a complete stranger making a decision for you and your family. Who the heck thought that was a good idea? Come on. Oh, no. No.
Naseema: Not a good idea at all, but yeah, it's there when you can't come to an agreement, but like be, be mature enough. Yeah. Anyways so when somebody comes to you to like, work with you through a divorce, like where, what is your specific role? Cause you're not an attorney. What is your specific role and what do you do to help people walk through that process?
Regina McCann Hess: I know. Great question. Definitely not an attorney. I work with some great attorneys though. And they have a tough job. I have a hard time [00:12:00] making sure I don't take this home. With me, the emotional side of it, I can't imagine, being the attorney and that's all they do, right?
That's all they deal with. So that's gotta be emotionally draining. So when someone comes to me, I am talking to them about the while they're married, they have all these assets that they're piling up and growing together and you're putting it all on the kitchen table because it's both of yours.
Now we're going through all the financial aspects of your marriage. And looking at that big, pile of assets on the kitchen table and I'm helping them determine, okay, we're going to split it into two piles. Now, it was 1 pile. Now we have 2 piles. And which of those assets is going to be, better.
Working for you versus the spouse, and, not all assets are the same. Even if the dollar value looks the same, it's not always the same because you have to think about the tax implications and the [00:13:00] accessibility and things like that. So I help people. Make those decisions, if it's going to be a 50 50 split, that doesn't mean you get 50 percent of every single holding or every item, they might get something, you might get a different thing, or, you may split some things, but it's not going to be 50 50, or, if it's 60 40, same thing some assets are just not split down the middle or by the assets.
So you have to decide which one works better for this person. A lot of times with, I work predominantly with women. I work with men too, but mostly women come to me for a divorce because most men have the relationship with a financial advisor. They feel like they already have somebody to help them.
So usually it's the woman because she's not part of that relationship. Even if she has accounts with that person, I can't tell you how many times I come across that. I'm like, come on guys,
Naseema: But Regina let's talk about that for a minute though, because isn't that crazy? Like you have this financial [00:14:00] advisor, the financial advisor is supposed to be managing your family's finance. So why wouldn't the women have a relationship with that person? Why wouldn't she be able to go there and say, Hey, which we're splitting up.
Can you tell me which accounts I we need to split and how to do that? Like why is that a thing?
Regina McCann Hess: Oh, let me tell you, I want to bang my head against the wall. It I mean, and it happens all the time and it's in it and it doesn't stop. And I tell all my financial advisor friends, I'm like, listen, You need to change your ways. You need to speak to the woman directly. You need to give them more eye contact.
You want to give them, more of a power seat in the conference room. I sit all my ladies, if they come into the office, if it's a husband wife, I sit the ladies at the head of the table. Because that is one of the few times they're ever treated respectfully or in a position of power. And I'm always like talking to my guy friends, my guy, FAA friends, financial advisors.
I'm like, Hey, you need to treat the women like a little bit more kinder. This, that, and the other thing I said. [00:15:00] Otherwise they're going to come to me when they get divorced and I'm going to take them as a client. And they laugh at me and they laugh at me and I'm okay. I take the client. But it's a male dominated industry, right?
Financial advisors. Another thing that hasn't changed since I've come into the business, 85 percent male. And they, Not all of them because there's some great guys in this industry too, but a lot of them will not treat the women like they treat the men. The other thing is they don't educate.
They talk or they speak in jargon, which not even the guys understand, but the guys will play along and act like they do
the
Naseema: part right
Regina McCann Hess: And the women will ask a question because they at least will say, I don't understand
Naseema: I don't know. said. That's a totally different language. bUt then the advisor.
Regina McCann Hess: Answers them in more jargon. And then also sadly, we'll speak down to them and somewhat chastise them for asking a stupid [00:16:00] question, which I'm sorry, like I would just get up and leave that.
Naseema: Can I just tell you like, that is the reason why I'm in the personal finance space is because I feel like 1st of all, financial advisors have over complicated things. Not no shade to you. I'm not talking
Regina McCann Hess: So good. It's all good.
Naseema: And then they and then they talk down to people in a way that make them back out of situations.
I'm I work at a hospital where there's this big six, three, like white guy that like, uses all this jargon and the nurses are like, I don't want to talk to him because he scares me. And I don't know what he's saying. Like they're physically intimidated. And then they feel like this is a situation they're already feeling inadequate about.
So then they don't want to talk to him. So I can't tell you how many nurses have not had their accounts set up. They've been there for. 20, 30 years, but we're so scared to talk to the financial advisor that they just didn't do it. [00:17:00] Or they just don't know what's in their account or they've even closed it, pulled money out of their account because of that fear.
So that is so real and it is it drives me nuts, but actually, but I
Regina McCann Hess: see my eyeballs rolling
Naseema: Yeah, I actually really like him and I don't think he does it on purpose, but I like how you call them out, like your friends and be like, Hey, what's up? This might not be intentional.
This is like probably so conscious to you, but just to let you know, like you're turning these people off. Like these are great relationships that you could establish if you just came at it from this approach. And so I like the approach, which you take, where you take, you empower these women, you sit them at the head of the table, and then you make sure that, they feel seen and heard in these situations, which is few and far between.
So kudos to you. But yeah, I just had to call that out because it is ridiculous.
Regina McCann Hess: Yeah, thank you. I agree. I agree. Guys do better. Just do better guys.
Naseema: Thank
you.
Regina McCann Hess: We're begging you. That's, that's why I get a lot of women's because of those types of situations. And, my [00:18:00] mom divorced when I was younger. So I'm a product of divorce and I saw what happened afterwards?
It was complete financial disaster afterwards. Cause she didn't have any guidance basically, but, any good guidance either. But so my mission, personal mission is to help as many people avoid that mistake that my mom went through and avoid the turmoil afterwards. Granted there wasn't a lot of money anywhere.
They were poor, but still there could have been a little bit better of a situation. She had to raise five kids on nothing. And family court wasn't what it is today. My dad wouldn't have gotten away with it today. But it is what it is. So my mission is to make sure I can help as many people who need help and avoid those situations.
So my goal is that by the time they get to the point of signing their agreement. One, they understand what they're signing and what they're getting in that divorce agreement, like they're split, and how does that [00:19:00] impact them today, tomorrow, 15, 20 years from now, and really, are they going to be okay? And now, granted, they may not be perfect, because, you're dividing and conquering, right?
But, If there's a way to make as okay as they can be coming out of the divorce and setting them on the right path, that is what I do on the financial side of the divorce.
Naseema: so people come to you when they're just like, okay, we've decided we're going to get a divorce and I want to make sure that my financial interest is protected. So they're at that point. And divorces take a long time. Even if you haven't been married for a long time, trust me, they take a long time.
Do they continuously consult with you through mediation, through rounds, up to trials, if it ever gets to that point, like how closely do you typically work with your clients?
Regina McCann Hess: Oh, yeah. Yeah. I will literally, depending on the situation like the attorney, I'll work with the attorney as well. [00:20:00] Assuming they work with an attorney who is friendly with somebody who has the CDFA background, the divorce financial analyst background, some attorneys, the older attorneys, I should say, maybe the old fashioned, I shouldn't say older, the old fashioned attorneys may not want someone like me and Bob, because it's like decreasing their billing time. Not kidding, but a lot of attorneys will embrace someone like me and my role. And I have worked, like I said, I've worked with so many good attorneys literally we'll rehash if they have a meeting we'll rehash what it means and I'll change the, spreadsheet or whatever it is I'm working from and show the impact on the client.
So we're working hand in hand with the attorneys. With mediators it depends on if I am, if I'm an advocate for my client, I generally will not, the mediator will not speak to me directly unless I come into a meeting, but I have to [00:21:00] be careful because I'm in a mediator is supposed to be Switzerland, right?
They're supposed to be like not taking sides or anything like that. So I do go to some of those meetings, but. I will preface it when I get to that meeting. I'm here as an advocate for spouse a most times with mediation, I'm getting my client ready for the mediation. And then when they come out of the mediation, were regrouping on the conversation.
What happened? What changes do we need to make? And then what should we agree to? What may not be a great idea? What do they need to go back to their attorney about, or, or their mediator about, nothing on the legal side will I touch? I always like, Hey, Heisman on that one.
You can go talk to the attorney. And sometimes I have to, I, sometimes I say, they ask me some questions. I'm like that is a loaded gun. I really can't answer that. I think you need to go. Ask the attorney and I'd really be curious about how they answer that because I'm always trying to learn, right?
There's
Naseema: Mm-Hmm.
Regina McCann Hess: something to learn. And I do webinars or [00:22:00] educational webinars every month with a divorce group, different professionals. And I am not kidding you. I learned some every single time we talk because there's always something, right?
Naseema: why I do my podcast. It's my free education instead of going to school. I just bring people on like you and just educate me all the time. So
I am a big fan of continuous education.
Regina McCann Hess: Absolutely. Always,
Naseema: Yeah. So what's the difference between what you do and a forensic
Regina McCann Hess: Oh, yeah. Forensic accountant. I haven't had to use too many of them on cases, but they are your detectives to find out where missing money went. And, there are sometimes sadly situations where that happens. I thankfully haven't had any cases where there's actually been money missing.
There's been. questions about things, but we haven't had to get to bringing a forensic accountant in, but they're basically looking at things and saying, huh, you get that feeling [00:23:00] when something just isn't right. You got to listen to your intuition. And that's when you bring, or there's a glaring, red flag Hey, there's money missing out of this account.
It's a big chunk of money. Where did it go? And a forensic accountant is going to track that back and find out where it went, how it was, dispersed, where it was spent, sometimes where it was spent, but, where it went, essentially.
Naseema: Yeah, so they're the ones trying to find the money and you're more of like the strategic planner around the money that, is there. But if you need to go find some money, that's who you're going to call.
Regina McCann Hess: yeah, and who, where you're going to use them more and more is with a digital currency. Because that, yeah, that's not going to show up in your, brokerage account, your investment account. That is hidden and you have to have the passwords, the correct passwords to get into it. And so that is, once it's there, it's a little hard to track, but you can track it getting there.
So there's ways, but it makes it difficult.
Naseema: Oh, good to [00:24:00] know all good
Regina McCann Hess: know. Bitcoin. Here we go.
Naseema: I want to know what is the number 1 thing that like, what a misconception maybe about accounts are splitting money that you come across? Is it something like, oh, he has. So much in this 401k, but this Roth IRA doesn't have that much money.
It's better to go after the 401k or something like that. What is that common theme that you're just like, actually, this might have the, is there a common thing like that you have to talk to people about or that you find like
Regina McCann Hess: Yeah, financially it's hysterical because some people and some attorneys to don't understand the value of certain accounts, like going to ruin the surprise here. But, I've actually had a case where a husband was fighting, arguing oh, she can have the Roth, but I wanted the Roth 401k. I wanted traditional 401k. I'm like, okay, we'll agree to that. Okay, he can win this one
Naseema: Dang. We don't want to give that [00:25:00] up. But
Regina McCann Hess: yeah, I'm not gonna, all right. And honestly, I was like, he's in a much higher tax bracket. That money was so much more valuable to him, but he got it in his head that that was something that, he was going to stick her with.
I don't know, but I was just like. Okay, if you insist
Naseema: That
Regina McCann Hess: that's yeah, that's been funny when I've come across that and that is not one time that's happened a couple of times. I'm like, the secret's out about Ross at this point. Really? Come on. Oh, I think the other thing is, and this, I think 1 of the bigger challenges, I guess you could say from both sides is the house because of the housing market and the interest rates and stuff
Naseema: Oh, especially now, honey. Woo! Having to split up the house.
Regina McCann Hess: Goodness. Yeah,
Naseema: that on anybody.
Regina McCann Hess: seriously, it's been awful. And I will say it has changed because let's just go pre [00:26:00] COVID, but it's just because COVID is like this big black hole. It could be 4 years or it could be 20, right?
Naseema: Right.
Regina McCann Hess: Just like big space in my life. I forget. So let's just say pre COVID. ,when I was going through the divorce with a client and again, usually a woman it's preordained that, she thought she wanted to be in the house.
She needed to be in the house and she, had to have the house. And what she didn't think about was, could she afford to be in that house? Could she afford the lifestyle of that house and the upkeep of that house And Mm-Hmm,
Naseema: Come on.
Regina McCann Hess: and many of
Naseema: about it.
Regina McCann Hess: run through money or their settlement trying to stay in that house because of emotional attachments.
And would, I would have to have very tough conversations with them and say, okay, I know it's an emotional attachment. And think about, I know you're holding on to some good memories, but there's some pretty unhappy memories here too. And maybe a [00:27:00] fresh start for everybody may be better. But there's also the fact that if you stay in this house, your money's not going to last as long.
So those were really, really tough conversations. And those were the expected, this is a shoe and I'm going to stay in the house. But. Whether or not they were asking the right question, they weren't. Now it's, can I afford to leave the house? Can I get a house? Can I get an apartment? It's insane how difficult housing is right now, especially for people going through a divorce.
We're seeing all sorts of crazy, not crazy, but creative solutions, which have actually worked for a time. But it's been a big challenge.
Naseema: Man, I can't, like I said, I can only imagine I would not have to go through, want to have to go through that. Just to think about it, the thought just makes me cringe
Regina McCann Hess: I wouldn't want to do it. Wouldn't
Naseema: how does your fee structure work when you work with your clients? Good [00:28:00] question.
Regina McCann Hess: When I'm working with somebody through a divorce, I just charge them a flat fee because I want them to call me. I want them to email me. I want them to talk to me when they're worried or upset because they're when they're talking to the mediator or the attorney that clock is ticking and, it's at every 12 minute allotments.
They're not always fully explaining what they need to the attorneys and mediators and what's really important to them because they're worried about, oh, my God, how much is this going to cost me? So that's why I stick with a flat fee. And, some days I'm like, oh, my God, I am losing money on this because, like you said, a divorce could be 6 months.
It could be 2 years. Yeah.
Naseema: no, that's the reason why I ask because it can last a long time, but I'm also a big fan of flat fee financial advisors. Because when you get into that space of assets under management, or, even people selling insurance products, it gets, Like a little sketchy, like the fiduciary relationship around it.
Meaning [00:29:00] that how does that financial product actually serve you? Is it really for you or is it serving the person? So in this case, I know it's a little bit different, I was trying to see like, how would that even work? If like assets under management, it would be like, you would have to bring all their assets over to your firm.
That seems like that is a lot, that
Regina McCann Hess: that would be highly questionable if I did something like that. Anyway while you're going through a divorce, my goal, my job is to make sure that you're making, I'm helping you make informed decisions. Decisions and about what's going to happen.
And when you're going through a divorce, you're not supposed to be moving money around. That's a red flag. So yeah, I would not speak to somebody about how they're investing their money or what is it doing? What's it's a performance, anything like that. When they're done, their divorce.
If they approach me, I'll have a conversation with them about that side of my business, but when they're a divorce client, that's all we talk about is the plan, [00:30:00] how they're doing all their divorce information. It's all about that.
Naseema: I love it. I really like that. 1st of all, I did not know that there are financial advisors out there you I love the fee structure, but then I'm thinking about going back to financial advisors who. Have this relationship, this one sided relationship with the spouse, and then also are managing their portfolio assets under management.
So their best interest is always going to be to help serve that person. In that relationship even if they have a direct relationship with, because they'll get to keep the bulk of the money, right? Under their assets under management. Automatically if a woman goes to that person to seek help, it's already like a conflict of interest, because, they're going to side with their buddy because they know well, if he keeps all the money, and you would think, fiduciary roles, all of that kind of stuff, that wouldn't be a thing, but you could already see how that would bring up a [00:31:00] conflict. Yeah.
Regina McCann Hess: And there's 2 things on that. Not all financial advisors have the divorce designation. And let me tell you, even though I have a certified financial planning designation, I tried to do divorce planning when I just had the CFP because I have clients going through divorce. And I was just like, Oh, this doesn't work.
It's not the same type of planning. So a financial advisor who doesn't specialize have that niche in divorce is actually going to do more harm than good. The other thing is if one of my current clients came to me and said, Hey, we're getting a divorce, like husband and wife, I would work for them out to another divorce analyst because I can't say, all right I'm going to work with the husband or the wife.
Unless I acted as a neutral, that would be the only way I could do it. And I have. Worked in neutral capacity before. And that's basically where I'm Switzerland, but I also think it would be very, very difficult. So I would refer [00:32:00] that out to somebody I know who would take really, a good approach with that.
Naseema: saying I'm in the financial space and I didn't even know that there was a certified divorce, counselors in this area financial advisors. Like. How do people know if they're financial advisor, don't tell them that you're somebody that they should work with? Like, how do they get in front of you?
How do you get most of your clients? Yeah,
Regina McCann Hess: or other people who have gone through a divorce. I do get a lot of referrals from attorneys who have worked with me in the past. Because they like, I do a lot of work for them to make sure that, my goal is I want to, I want them to look good.
I want the client to do well. So I make sure that, I do a really good job. So they refer me business. Occasionally I have somebody come to me because they Googled divorce financial on list, but somebody had to tell
Naseema: yeah, like, how do you know that's a thing?
Regina McCann Hess: because it is not a common designation, you
Naseema: Yes.
Regina McCann Hess: At all. So yeah occasionally I'll get somebody who [00:33:00] Googles that and I'm one of maybe three in the whole area that have that designation. So
Naseema: Is it statewide or do you work across the country?
Regina McCann Hess: I work in a couple states . Yeah. Predominantly Pennsylvania, because I know the divorce rules around here. And, but the crazy thing, it's each county has different rules. It's just. Insane sometimes. I've had,
Naseema: able to keep up with that.
Regina McCann Hess: yeah. I've worked with clients from New Jersey. I've worked with people in Virginia and Maryland as well, going through divorce.
I can do other states, but I prefer to stay in states where I know the rules 'cause it's a lot harder. And I've had people come to me from other states that I haven't worked in and I've, suggested somebody that I knew that might be a better fit for them. Yeah, you guys ultimately you want the best for them.
Naseema: Yeah, definitely. And like I said this whole thing. It's fascinating to me because I'm just like, shoot, now I'm gonna be telling everybody, but it also speaks to the [00:34:00] designation because I'm just like, oh, my God if every rule you can't just have a CFP and be able to deal with divorces because you have to understand the divorce laws of all the different counties, not only the CFP, Things the different counties and without that special certification, like, how would you have been able to handle that?
So I like that. I like that. That certification exists. That's
Regina McCann Hess: Yeah, it's pretty cool. It is
Naseema: you isn't an attachment to your CFP do you already have to have a CFP? Or is it just like a certification for anybody in the financial space?
Regina McCann Hess: Yeah, anybody in the financial space There's some attorneys and mediators who also have it so you just have to have a certain amount of experience and a certain background to be able to get it But you don't have to have your cfp You don't have to have all the licensing that I have to be a financial advisor You don't have to be a financial advisor to get the divorce designation, but you do have to take classes and test and take CE credits and stuff like that.
So[00:35:00]
Naseema: Maybe I'll be one
Regina McCann Hess: there you go.
Uh,
Naseema: at that.
Regina McCann Hess: you go. Hey, California has a big divorce rate, so maybe not a bad idea.
Naseema: And listen, I know I've contributed to it, let's change gears a little bit because I do want to talk about your book. Super woman. Like I love it. I just want to know of course, everybody needs to get this book and I'm going to have it linked in a show notes, but what do you want women to take away from this? What are the biggest things that women absolutely have to know and have to take control of when it comes to their finances?
Regina McCann Hess: yeah, absolutely. I love that question. The 1st thing is just be more part of the conversation on your finances. 1 of the 1st things that I'm trying to get people do is to go back and have a kitchen table conversation because when we grew up You were not allowed to talk about finances at all, especially at the dinner table, right?
It is taboo and, but that created a generation of people who are like embarrassed to talk about finances are
Naseema: Why would you talk about [00:36:00] money? Why that's so
tacky.
Regina McCann Hess: One of the most important things in your life, right? Yeah, it's going to help do things for you. So it's very secretive. And secrets don't really do well. They beget more secrets.
I'm trying to bring out a kitchen table conversation and I like to say Hey, do it on a Sunday morning, go out and have some brunch or breakfast, whatever you like and then come back and do a quarterly review of pull up all the assets, all the statements and stuff and just sit down together and go through it.
If you're not, that doesn't mean you have to be the one taking control of everything, but have the other person. Walk you through it. So one, you ha you start to get an understanding of what you both have and understanding of what type of position you're in. And are you, what are your goals? Have you talked about your goals?
Are they the same goals? Cause a lot of times husband and wives and wives and wives and husbands and husbands. They don't have exactly [00:37:00] the same goals and that's okay, but you do want to talk about them and make sure you're both aligned on some of them and working towards whatever those goals are.
A conversation at the breakfast table, I think is like non threatening and it gets that conversation going. And if you do it every quarter, you're going to get a little bit more comfortable each time and a little understand a little bit more each time. So that is like the number one thing I'm trying to do.
Naseema: So what about our single girlies out here?
Regina McCann Hess: Yeah.
Naseema: have for us?
Regina McCann Hess: Then I think a great is get accountability buddy. And somebody that you know and trust, and that is not, squeaky with the mouth that's going to go tell everybody your business because it is still private information, but somebody that you can trust. And then. It's going to be shared between both of you.
That person's going to come to the kitchen table with their information. You're going to come with yours and you're each going to talk through what whatever your financial stuff is [00:38:00] and what your goals are and having that accountability buddy. Helps you stay more online kind of like Weight Watchers when you know you have to go weigh in you're not going to eat the coffee cake or whatever it is that you want really want to eat, but you don't because you got to get on that scale.
So those are types of things that can help.
Naseema: I love that normalizing conversations about money, make it a regular part of your routine. And I think that's like this whole like thing about making money taboo only serves a people that want to keep you broke. It does not serve you. If it, if you are really trying to build wealth, we have to start talking about money.
We have to be open. We have to have relationships. With people who we can talk honestly with about our money, but like staying quiet about it is not going to serve you in the long term. So I love how you talk about normalizing these conversations with your spouse and with your friends is super important.
I did want to ask this and this kind of goes back to the [00:39:00] divorce kind of situation, but with your clients, have you seen. Seeing where a prenup has helped or hindered or what are your thoughts about prenups and how, and in working with people through divorces, how have you seen them work?
Regina McCann Hess: I think prenups are a great idea. Oh, my goodness. So if somebody has a prenup, they're not going to use me as much because I'm the one trying to decipher what goes in the piles because they don't have prenups. A prenup will help avoid a lot of the pain. Not all of it, but a lot of the financial pain of the divorce because you already know What you agreed to ahead of time.
And there's, there can be still some arguing back and forth, but for the most part, you know what you've agreed to, and you know what you're going to walk away with, especially like it, I get it. We get married, when I got married, years ago, my husband and I were just starting out and either one of us had a penny, right?
So there was no need, like we, we didn't think there was a need, however, if I were to marry now as a second marriage or [00:40:00] a third marriage, whatever it was. I would never get married. No prenup because now I have to protect my babies. And women are better about asking for prenups than men.
Men think differently. They're like, Oh, she's so cute. She's okay. She's not going to do that to me. Women are like, no, I worked hard for this money and my babies are going to get my money and not. Like my new husband, right? We've already been through this and we're
Naseema: Mm
Regina McCann Hess: our little ones. And my little ones are not little anymore, but I'm still going to protect them and their rights.
Whereas men are less likely to get that prenup, but highly recommend prenups, especially if it's not your first marriage.
Naseema: Do you ever like, working with someone advise them like, hey, maybe if they're not like, all the way at the point of a divorce, but, there's a chance that they might be split up. Do you ever recommend post numps or just in your, financial advising practice? Do you recommend post numps for people?
Regina McCann Hess: [00:41:00] I haven't been in that situation, but I do think postnaps can work really well. And if I did, I would refer them to a couple of attorneys that I think would be, I'm thinking in my mind who they are right now who would be really good at setting those up for people and helping them work out that language.
And that could really stem the flow of future arguments.
Naseema: Wow, I just have to say, Regina, this has been a great conversation because you opened my eyes to a space that I did not even know existed, but I'm excited about because it's a positive resource that is empowering for both sides for both men and women to come out of like a divorce in a good financial position and understanding how those finances are going to affect them for the long term.
So I love that. Anything that has to do with making sure you're. On the right foot financially, I'm always going to advocate for, and to know that this is available for people and for people who are in Pennsylvania, New Jersey [00:42:00] area in particular to work with Regina, but you are CFP you do have the special designation.
So you do have such a wealth of knowledge. So I really enjoyed our conversation and what we talked about. Make sure you guys check out Regina's book. What is it super
Regina McCann Hess: Super women wealth, how to become your own financial hero
Naseema: yes, I was going to say superhero woman,
Regina McCann Hess: at all. It's all good.
Naseema: a little dyslexic,
but anyway, Regina, it was a pleasure talking to you. This is such a great conversation. Please hit Regina up. If you guys have questions, make sure you follow her on her socials. I'll have them all tagged in the show notes, but thank you again for coming on. And for what you do, you are a asset to our community and I love you for that.
So thank
Regina McCann Hess: thank you. I'm so blessed to be here. Thank you so much for having me. This was so much fun. I appreciate you.
Naseema: Thank [00:43:00] you.
Hey there I’m Naseema
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